Tour Divide 2018 Race Discussion Thread

[mikepro]

But I don't recall when anyone here (including me) has been brave enough here to post when a front runner or friend breaks the rules. 

Dave

Dave, I gotta say (which may be re-treading what you've said in different words), having been around since pre2010 and having my own 21day finish in 2010, I recall something diff from past TD race discuss threads, where plenty were "brave" enough to call out suspected "rules breaches" or whatever.  There was all sorts of watch-dogging and bird-dogging going on, and I recall riders calling each other out 'in the field' as it were.  I took it as legit peer-to-peer integrity and one of the purest forms of "gentle-person's agreement" in action.  I dared not take a candy bar, let alone a used toothpick unless the person dropped it on the ground first.  Not that I'd want to, either.   But, maybe you are saying the same the thing: that it used to be the case to call each other out to maintain some semblance of integrity and it's not the case anymore, save for the easy-to-spot-and-validate route deviation.
 Moreover, there was Matt, and then later Toby, holding people's feet to the fire so the speak, and some people (majority?) couldn't handle it and those people often defaulted to the "who the 'eff are you to tell me what I can and can't do, it's not an organized legit 'race' anyway!" logic.  After a while, Matt, Toby, and others, went silent (of their own volition).  I also recall plenty of racers going to great lengths to resolve mechanical issues and get back on route where they left off, within rules set (Aidan, from Brit Isles, is one example that comes to mind), and being commended and celebrated for it.  Things have mellowed and diluted considerably over the years, that's for sure.  I, for one, appreciate the pinned list of 'route deviations' and scratches on the current TD'18 FB page.  Which brings me to asking: are you one and the same as the admin of that FB group?

[mikepro]

... Especially with BS like Koko Claims being included...

One person's "This is BS" is another person's "Heck yeah, bring it on, this is what I signed up for!  Sweet!".

[WatermelonSugar]

Back to the racing.....looks like the early leaders are slipping back in the standings now. I know Richard Dunnett wrecked and bashed himself up but does anyone know if Dom Irvine is having problems? Maybe it's that hard pace he went out at catching up on him?
Battle of the single speeders back in 2nd/3rd. Those guys are really rockin it!!

[GrizzlyAdam]

This is what I don't understand. Why are they starting the Tour Divide? Trackleaders even offers a GDMBR touring page for folks who want tracking for friends and family. Anyway, maybe I have been immersed in the ultrarunning community for too long. These attitudes would not fly at the Hardrock 100. In that race, lots of ordinary folks accept a seemingly impossible challenge. They follow the rules, they follow the course, they do everything they can to battle to the finish in 48 hours. Many of them fail, and that in itself is a worthy experience. I'm certainly not a purist and not about to tell anyone what their experience should be, but I feel sad for those who miss out on the intensity of such experiences by selling themselves short from the get-go.

But I have hijacked this thread long enough. Go everyone out there who is actually riding! ;-)

The Hardrock 100 doesn't last 20-30 days. Plenty of regular people line up at 100-mile mountain bike races and stay on course, follow the rules, etc. But the TD is different simply based on its length, cost, time commitment, and so forth. For a lot of people, it's a huge bucket list item, and if the choice for them becomes "drop out for X reason, or skip a portion of the route and keep riding", many will choose to keep riding. And good for them.

I think everyone that lines up for the TD should follow the rules and the route. But it also shouldn't bother people so much when they don't. Unless someone knowingly cheats, and tries to claim a result, as happened at the Stagecoach this year, then who cares if Rider A helps Rider B fix a flat?

TG criticized people for far more than rules violations. He got angry at everyone for just about everything. He caught well-earned blowback.

[GrizzlyAdam]

Also,

Much love and respect to everyone racing the TD this year and all those of you have raced it in the past. I'm just a grump, so don't take me too seriously.

[bikelite]

Irvine has definitely slowed down. I suspect there is an issue but nothing to take him out of the race.

[taprider]

looks like Mark Beck is having quite an adventure
http://trackleaders.com/tourdivide18i.php?name=Mark_Beck
think he is trying to do a Long Ranger and follow the original route with just an outdated original map?
sure lots of dead-ends attempted and lots of back-tracking

[Rooster Cogburn]

Don't tell Border Control about his route.  Looks like he turned off his Spot when he got to the border and realized he had a big problem.

[dream4est]

Mark Beck got lost and I believe is in polebridge. IMO he missed the turn to cabin pass after butts, took the wrong right, went all over the place, backtracked, crossed the border illegally at the old crossing with bridge out since 90 or so. now in polebridge the only town nearby with food.

Wow. i want to hear this story.

[pro_out]

Mark Beck got lost and I believe is in polebridge. IMO he missed the turn to cabin pass after butts, took the wrong right, went all over the place, backtracked, crossed the border illegally at the old crossing with bridge out since 90 or so. now in polebridge the only town nearby with food.

Wow. i want to hear this story.

Perhaps now Mark is going to take N Fork Road all the way to Columbia Falls, Different Drum!

[dream4est]

Perhaps now Mark is going to take N Fork Road all the way to Columbia Falls, Different Drum!

thats what i would do. looks like a nice ride.

[dream4est]

looks like 60 year old lantern rouge gary braun is up the road from Mark Beck in Polebridge stopped at schnaus cabin. SB vs NB up front two SS in the top four old dudes on adventures in the rear nice race we having here i am loving this!

[Jilleo]

Wow. i want to hear this story.

I do too. Quite the adventure! Hopefully he can clear things up with the authorities if needed. A couple of years ago Jeff Oatley crossed into Canada at a remote crossing on the Yukon Quest Trail, and was nearly thrown in jail. Not sure if there is different protocol since he's a U.S. citizen crossing into the U.S., but if it were me, I would travel to Roosville and try to sort it out. https://whatsupyukon.com/Yukon-Lifestyle/active/an-accidental-alien/

[Flinch]

I've jokingly wondered to myself that, in order to be on the race tracker, you need to write an essay on "Who was Toby Gadd? Describe his importance to the history of the race."

Write. It. Yourself. Damnit!       This will make absolutely no sense to those who don't know Toby...

[dream4est]

I actually met an awesome border patrol guy in 2014 on road up to red meadow pass. my knee was toast i was one legged riding going for a triple crown about to quit. the guy comes up out of nowhere. i say what u looking for? he says illegals sneak across at old crossing and take red meadow to hide from him- drug movers etc. he offers me a ride to polebridge. I turn him down super fast or my race is over in my mind but really now i see it was only 5 miles away lol.
I asked him about old crossing. he said it washed out in 89? its the canucks bridge they wouldnt replace it the us closed the crossing. they have sensors everywhere according to the guy as well as cameras so maybe they already know about mr beck and his adventure ?

edit- Same border patrol guy had worked at Antelope Wells with Tim the legendary officer who lives at antelope wells. He was very interested in race after hearing it went there. At end of 2015 race i asked Tim about this. Small world Tim said he worked at Roosville before. Tim gave me a ride to Deming in 2015 for beer and gas money. Great guy the ice cream man.

[Flinch]

And now for something soothing. The discussion re Koko Claims difficuly vs old routes - I humbly submit the elevation profiles and distance comparisons in the attached pic; hey, why not use actul data? Seems like the difference between 2015 and 2017 (two of the years I raced) shows the following:

Year   Banff to Border     Elevation Gain
2015  250.8 mi              19,831'
2017  262.4 mi              27,537'

In 2015 I made Ram Wigwam campground (just past Cabin Pass) on second night. In 2017 I made Butts Cabin second night. I though the 2017 route was much tougher, but then the first day was rain and mud fest for 2017, versus minor rain/mud in 2015. I was in moderately better shape in 2017. Strangley, I didn't think Koko was physically that big of a deal. Slow = check. Impressive = check. Hard = Not super hard. It did fool with my head until I got there though. Note for the record (and Josh can attest to this, after blowing by me in 2017 but kindly slowing to talk to an old dottard), I am not a strong rider, being 67, but for those young whippersnappers who complain about Koko, hey, I did it and I'm still kicking!

Now can someone ask the nurse to get my jello before I starve???

         

[Bob]

Part of the "problem" is that there's no limit to those turning up for the Grand Depart so tourers aren't taking up places that racers might want/deserve. Personally I think if you send a LOI or turn up in Banff for the TD Grand Depart then you should be "racing", i.e. you don't have to aim to be up with the likes of Josh Kato or Lael Wilcox but you are intending to ride as fast as you can. If you just want to tour it then hang around Banff for a few days to check out the GD and then set off yourself.

Calling people out for not following the route/rules isn't black and white, there's lots of shades of grey. I suppose there's partly an element of intent involved - if someone knows that riding trail X rather than trail Y is far easier and/or quicker then there's intent to deceive and they should be called out for it but if someone's taken a left for one block then gone straight on when they should have gone one block further before taking the left there's no material gain and if it was a genuine mistake so what? There may have been a fire or accident at the junction they should have taken and there was a temporary diversion put in by the fire or police department. Ultimately it's personal integrity and honesty.

I've Toby Gadd's ruleset saved as one of my bookmarks. Given the preacher like tone I'm surprised each doesn't have a suggested punishment: No borrowing of gear - punishable by surrendering your bear spray for two days 

[WatermelonSugar]

It seems to me that a lot of people want their moment of internet fame....sign up for the race....write a blog....post on facebook...oooo look at me I'm riding the divide...look at my Salsa cutthroat and all the gear I bought...I'm just like JayP. Then when reality hits it's all rule bending, alternating, and farting around. Anyone can ride the route but to race it according to rules is a different thing. 

[Get Mounted]

Looks like some serious storms on the way in Southern Montana/Idaho. Let's see who makes it over Bannack Rd while it's still dry....(eats popcorn)...

[Flinch]

"...I've Toby Gadd's ruleset saved as one of my bookmarks. Given the preacher like tone I'm surprised each doesn't have a suggested punishment: No borrowing of gear - punishable by surrendering your bear spray for two days..."

Actually there is a punishment for route deviation- you must have missed it in the Book of Gadd: "If ye deviate from thy route, the ear of thy favorite dog shall be split asunder, thy bottom shall chafe and burn, and all elements of weather shall visit upon thee."

I miss Toby...