Tour Divide 2009

[AmyL]

 Looks like Brad left the route where the ACA map says "Next 4.4 miles are extremely steep uphill, but they lead through fascinating country with several stream crossings.  (For a slightly easier but longer route, continue following main road over Stemple Pass to mile 77.3.)
I wonder if Brad decided to deliberately DQ from the race, and that he's not lost.  He's on the paved road now, on a beeline to Helena.

[Kevin Montgomery]

It looks like he is now at the airport.  Likely a dropout.

[ScottM]

Hmm... Martin Rendl made a similar mistake, and is also nearing the airport now.

http://tourdivide.org/leaderboard/2009/individual?name=Martin%20Rendl

[700see.]

Hoo boy. It really seems like a number of people have come into this ride/race without real understanding of the rules or enough non-competitive background in this sort of travel. I guess it's to be expected as the idea of this sort of race becomes more popular. It's also a good indication that SPOTs can't be used for "refereeing" as many people have surmised.

It takes a special mindset to turn around and make things right (Pete B in previous years is a good example).

[AmyL]

"It takes a special mindset to turn around and make things right"
Agreed.  Or the integrity both Bruce G and Martin R showed when they promptly called to say that they had left the route and therefore no longer qualified as racers, but would be continuing to ride anyway.  Dignity wins in the end.

[ScottM]

Yeah, this is a tough one.  Cutting the course is not cool.

In other news, I extended the split chart all the way to the finish!  It has Matt taking a few hours off the record, despite the new CA section and all the weather.  There is much to happen between now and then, but I thought the calculation was kind of fun.  The split chart is only the white background version one now -- I don't have time to figure out a way to get it all to fit within the Tour Divide layout.  All the links are updated accordingly.

I actually just spoke with Matt in Rawlins.  He says the rain has been pretty much constant (day after day after day) to the point where you just have to give up on the idea of being dry or clean or comfortable.  He's feeling very beat down, "almost like I feel when I get to Antelope Wells."  "I can't believe I'm only halfway..."  Weather does take its toll on you, even if it doesn't cost much actual time -- it can seem like things are many times harder/slower.  It's pretty amazing that he's still on record pace.

In fact, the phone call ended when he said, "oph, it just started raining.... I better go."

Go Matt!

[700see.]

Thanks again Scott, Kevin, Joe, etc. for all your great work. You guys are amazing + very generous with your computer skills.

Looks like Jacob Johnsrud caught a ride from around Grant over to Dillon, MT on I-15 off course. Hope he's OK.

I'm pretty surprised at the number of people that are cavalier about "catching a ride back to where I left off" (forward on the course) after a problem. That is in conflict with a basic rule in any self-supported racing. I mean, come on.

[SandSurfer]

Yo Matt, Do you mean "back to where I left off" as in back to the folks you were riding with?  I haven't followed the race quite closely enough to figure that out, and figure out in which circumstances that happened.  I know you can get a ride back to the point you left the route (the furthest point to which you had advanced by bike).

Edit: Just listened to Jamie.  I would assume the rules mean he can get a ride back to where he got a ride from.  Yes he was brought back to Lima, an earlier part of the course, but the ride would only be to where he was originally picked up.

Thanks again Scott, Kevin, Joe, etc. for all your great work. You guys are amazing + very generous with your computer skills.

Looks like Jacob Johnsrud caught a ride from around Grant over to Dillon, MT on I-15 off course. Hope he's OK.

I'm pretty surprised at the number of people that are cavalier about "catching a ride back to where I left off" (forward on the course) after a problem. That is in conflict with a basic rule in any self-supported racing. I mean, come on.

[richNYC]

Yo Matt, Do you mean "back to where I left off" as in back to the folks you were riding with?  I haven't followed the race quite closely enough to figure that out, and figure out in which circumstances that happened.  I know you can get a ride back to the point you left the route (the furthest point to which you had advanced by bike).

Edit: Just listened to Jamie.  I would assume the rules mean he can get a ride back to where he got a ride from.  Yes he was brought back to Lima, an earlier part of the course, but the ride would only be to where he was originally picked up.

Don't mean to be a stickler for details but the TD rules are clear on that: http://tourdivide.org/the_rules

... A racer may also receive assistance returning back to the GDMBR, however, the moment a racer rejoins the route, further forward assistance is prohibited, even if a racer as already ridden that stretch prior to leaving the route. Again, assistance moving forward on the route, in any circumstance, is forbidden...

[700see.]

Yo Matt, Do you mean "back to where I left off" as in back to the folks you were riding with?  I haven't followed the race quite closely enough to figure that out, and figure out in which circumstances that happened.  I know you can get a ride back to the point you left the route (the furthest point to which you had advanced by bike).

Edit: Just listened to Jamie.  I would assume the rules mean he can get a ride back to where he got a ride from.  Yes he was brought back to Lima, an earlier part of the course, but the ride would only be to where he was originally picked up.

Rich already answered...but here's mine anyway:

You cannot move forward on the route, not even an inch, using a vehicle...even if you've ridden the section already.

The rule:

Advancing on the route by any means other than your own pedal power is strictly forbidden. No drafting. Any type of air scoop or umbrella sail intended to harness wind power is prohibited. In the event of a serious mechanical, medical, or other emergency, a racer may be assisted in moving backwards or directly off the route, but never forward. A racer may also receive assistance returning back to the GDMBR, however, the moment a racer rejoins the route, further forward assistance is prohibited, even if a racer as already ridden that stretch prior to leaving the route. Again, assistance moving forward on the route, in any circumstance, is forbidden.

This rule prevents a pandora's box from opening in getting outside aid...especially for folks that live near or have friends along the route. Unforeseen assistance is needed sometimes, but there are guidelines for it that are spelled out in the rules.

Legal:
Stopping in Butte, getting a ride to Bozeman to buy an odd part from a bike shop there, getting a ride back to Butte. Restarting at the exact same place. This has happened in Abiquiu before (getting supplies in Albuquerque or Santa Fe).

NOT legal:
Having a problem past Butte, getting a ride back to Butte, rectifying said problem, and then getting a ride forward on the route to where you left off. No dice.

[SandSurfer]

Ok, this is why these events becoming organized is really turning me off to the idea of doing them.  What's the definition of "rejoining the route"?  Let's say you are in Butte and you left your Spot in Helena.  You can't find one to buy in Butte.  It's legal to go to Bozeman and buy a new one, but not to get a lift back to Helena because that would be "rejoining the route."  As I read the rules, it would also be against the rules for someone to go get it for you, or to bring it to you, because that isn't commercial shipping.

It seems to me that you're already taking a time penalty, and that the spirit of the ride is to ride the entire route self-supported.  If getting rides from Butte to Bozeman and back is within the rules, I don't understand why getting a ride from Butte to Helena and back wouldn't be.

How close does it have to to be "rejoining the route"?  Maybe the route doesn't pass by the door of the shop in Lima.  So technically one could argue that he hasn't rejoined the route.

Even if Jamie rejoins the route where he got the ride, he'll be riding 100% of the route.  I thought that was what this race was all about.  I guess I just don't get it.

[700see.]

Ok, this is why these events becoming organized is really turning me off to the idea of doing them.

This has nothing to do with "organization" - this has been a rule in self-supported racing since there were a few guys standing around in the dirt at the start. You have to think about the broader consequences/ramifications of allowing people to move forward on the route in a motor vehicle, not just about certain situations when application of the rule seems unfair. You already see how things are changing and possible conflicts arising as more and more people show up. There aren't many rules to begin with, and those that are in place are simplistic on purpose with good reason.

From Curiak's GDR rules:
The original intent of this race was to ride the GDMBR as fast as possible in the simplest/purest style possible. As time has gone on people have begun looking for loopholes within the rules that'll save them time on the course. This is human nature and all of us do it in different ways in our everyday lives. With respect to the GDR, we ask that you please consider the long term ramifications of finding and using loopholes--the race will only get 'easier' and (conversely) require more rules/regulations as time goes on. This goes against all of the principles that the race was founded on. People: PLEASE don't bring The Race down to your level--elevate yourself to the level of The Race. If you find yourself looking for loopholes, consider taking another year to prepare before racing. Most likely you'll go faster and enjoy it more as a result.

Getting assistance from a motorist as it stands now in the rules is a good compromise between two poles: 'Getting motorized assistance = DQ.' vs. 'Getting motorized assistance and, you know, just make sure that you ride the entire route.' This is necessary due to the scope and nature of the race. If you want to take the latter tack, well, how are you going to verbalize it in the rules? More rules = more organization = more of what you state you don't like.

The fact that you can use a motor vehicle at all is in consideration of health + safety, not 'racing.' At many shorter races (e.g. Colorado Trail Race), motorized vehicle = DQ.

[brendanc]

We got a phone call from Cannon yesterday as he arrived in Pinedale, WY. He sounded good, said he's having a great time.
Mary gave him a rudimentary lesson on resetting the SPOT unit. 

This morning, Bruce Giroux called, from Butte. Sounds like he's been having a bit of a tough time dealing with rain & mud, said he was under prepared in this area but he's figuring it out... He's going to keep on keepin' on, no thoughts of giving up any time soon.

[SandSurfer]

I understand the idea behind the rule, but I just don't get that it's ok to get a ride sideways and back to the trail, but not backwards and then back to the point you left.  I also assume that by the letter of the law, you couldn't get a ride forward to a shop, even if that's the best place to go, and even if you then got a ride back to the point you left of.  So sideways and back to the point you left off ok, backwards and back to the point you left off, not ok, forwards and back to the point you left off not ok.  Same exact thing happening in all three cases, one ok and two not.

Am I missing something?

[timroz]

How would you like to get passed by someone in a truck?

[eMcK]

I'm a little confused by this too. If you leave the route and return to it at the same place, why does it matter if you got north, south, east or west?

I would not care if I was passed by someone in a truck as long as that person was returning to the point where he/she left the route.

What pandora's box might be opened by people moving in a forward direction, vs backwards or rearwards?

[walkre73]

The rule says you cannot advance on the route by any means but your own power . hence you can backtrack but cannot advance .

[eMcK]

Why does a temporary advancement matter though? Once again, if the rider restarts at the same point here is no advantage to be gained.

[walkre73]

Go to this link , tourdivide.org/the_rules .

[700see.]

Tell you what...why don't you guys formulate a simple rule that allows assistance in the event of a catastrophe (mechanical or medical) and is mindful of larger, more competitive fields years down the road - many of the riders coming from a broader range of backgrounds, outside of the bikepacker clique? I think it's already there.

What pandora's box might be opened by people moving in a forward direction, vs backwards or rearwards?

Really? What pandora's box can be opened by making it legal for people to travel forward on the route in a motor vehicle? How could such an allowance be stretched, interpreted, and abused down the road? Is the honor system important in this sort of racing? You bet. Does the possibility of incorporating motorized vehicles going forward on the race route maybe put undue strain on said honor system? An extra hundred yards from where I stopped? A few miles? The next junction on the route?

Riding the route in it's entirety is the spirit of the event...but being tired/ill, getting a ride back to a hotel with a shower and a bed, and then getting a ride back to where you left of is not. Now do you start legislating that it's OK to do it only if there's a mechanical?.....and round and round we go. Better to make an ironclad rule and leave it be while still allowing for people to get help when necessary, yeah?

You have to think more broadly than "hey, that's unfair that you can go other directions but not this one" in certain instances. Force majeure. Tough luck. Them's the breaks. Luck plays a pretty major part in this sort of activity and you can't legislate that. The rules are blunt and keep in mind that these rules have been thought up by people who have been doing this sort of riding for many, many years and there is lucid reasoning behind them.

The whole point of me bringing up this rule was not to debate it or call anyone out - I was merely pointing out that a number of people started the race without knowing the rule(s).

This is all I'm going to say about it. I've started the event once, may again in the future, and I support the rule as it stands now.