TD'11 Race Discussion

[mooseb]

Although, people did come out to cheer Paul on he didn't even stop !!! He flew by at full speed with only a wave. I think he might have been worried about being relegated and also, it may have been too emotional for him to see his 3 daughters and wife and then have to ride away again.

[caseygreene]

OK, I see.  I thought I remembered a note about this for NoBo riders on the map.  Do they really suggest the hole in the fence?  Maybe you just have to get on at the next on-ramp?  Riding in town on the freeway is likely prohibited, but when it's the only route (as it is heading out of Butte) it is legal.  Maybe someone from ACA can chime in, we have a cartographer here, right?  Or someone that has the maps handy?  Mine are in AZ...

ACA has nothing on the maps about Nobo at all. I wonder if he got turned away due to the current construction?

[mtbcast]

Roland Sturm called in from near Basin and gave a rundown of the NoBo’s.

You can get the audio here, via RSS,  or on iTunes!

[brunch]

I loved our super fan in 09. He was practically wearing a clown hat and definitely had cowbells. He was in the Gila, in a VW bug. I have a picture of him so I know it's a real memory. Anyone see him this year?

Some of the guys I caught up to later didn't like him though. I had no problem but of course he was only one guy dancing alone in the wilderness. That was the Rainbow year so I saw a lot of that. I guess it's different now.

Still, I wouldn't want there to be any rules conjured up to discourage spot stalking. Less is more in my opinion, even if it means frustration in the field.

The race is growing and it will be interesting, and probably frustrating, to see how it changes. But change it will. Hopefully TD organizers are letting history be their guide and trying to learn about what worked (and didn't) from other events.

[BobM]

A 2-3 hour time delay on Spot position posts until the rider is south of Silver City could work wonders.

[SlowDave]

Rather than a rule, a delay or whatever, if you don't want people to know where you are shut the f-ing thing off.  Isn't that kind of like personal responsibility?

[DaveH]

One thing that strikes me about this year's event is the low scratch rate.  With the pre-race talk about folks not coming to this event adequately prepared, it sure seems that has not been the case.  There is a big crew of motivated, salty, tough, smart  riders out there.

Some stats, assuming no more scratches - and I could be off a bit on the numbers as I'm pulling from the current state of the leaderboard & map layers.

Nobos:  15 starters,  9 scratches = 40% finish rate.

Sobos:  69 starters, 17 scratches = 75% finish rate.

Of course these are premature, but all the same anything jump out at ya?  That new Gila section must be a real ass kicker.

[Bounce]

I was on FS 250 between HORCA and Platoro today and ran into Jackie Bonn.

She's got a smile on her face and appears to be doing very well.



Then, at the Skyline Lodge in Platoro, I ran into who I think is Tori Fahey and John Umstead.  They're doing GREAT as well.  Sorry if I got your names wrong:

[brunch]

Thanks for the pics Bounce.

Look at those smiles!

I'm with Slow-Dave on the Spot stalking. You don't have to link your SPOT to TD, SPOT gives you your own private page if you want, just link your friends and be hidden to the scary stalkers out there like Bounce if you want. It's pretty simple in my opinion.

[Marshal]

Been out of web contact for a few days, fun catching up.

Congratulations to all who have finished.  It was exciting watching the drama unfold!!

Looks like NM is tossing a twist at some of the racers still out there.  Be safe ya all.

[Marshal]

One thing that strikes me about this year's event is the low scratch rate.  With the pre-race talk about folks not coming to this event adequately prepared, it sure seems that has not been the case.  There is a big crew of motivated, salty, tough, smart  riders out there.

Some stats, assuming no more scratches - and I could be off a bit on the numbers as I'm pulling from the current state of the leaderboard & map layers.

Nobos:  15 starters,  9 scratches = 40% finish rate.

Sobos:  69 starters, 17 scratches = 75% finish rate.

Of course these are premature, but all the same anything jump out at ya?  That new Gila section must be a real ass kicker.

Barring the heat issues for the NB’ers I think there might be several reasons the attrition amongst the SB races is low.  But I suspect the main reason is that every yr racers have ever better access to web info on just what it takes to finish.  And this yr's class looks to have studied very well indeed!!

Also, I hope not, but would not be surprised to see some drop out in a few more days due to ‘work schedule’ type reasons.

Anyway best of luck to all who are still going

[ZackR]

A little education might go a long way toward stopping the kind of disruptive stalking mentioned in this thread by two actual finishers of this year's race. The education could be delivered by the very tool the stalkers use to locate the riders. I don't think any of the folks Kurt or Jefe mentioned had any idea their behavior was a problem, though I would think anyone watching closely enough to locate a rider on the course would realize there is a huge amount of concentration involved in completing the race. Duh. At any rate, rules aimed at spectators are probably an exercise in futility, since there is no way to enforce them save punishing the racers, which is absurd.

[SlowDave]

The whole NM fire thing has been very distressing for me having been a Los Alamos resident.  The conditions are so bad there everyone familiar with the area was expecting closures at any time.  When the fire broke out there was a lot of chatter on face book from friends there and then that stopped with the evacuation.  I forwarded the fire map Amy posted and it was appreciated.  It has been hard to see the trails I used to hike, ride and ski in the burn areas.  It looks like the nordic trails have been burned and the pipeline trail.  The top of Mitchel Canyon looks like it got hit as did American Springs.  It is interesting that a lot of effort was put into clearing ground fuel in the American Springs area and south of hwy 4 yet those same areas look like that is where the fire really got going.

The weather report today said there were going to be S winds 20-25 with gusts up to 35.  The wind was to shift to the SW later in the day.  I was doing some business with Los Alamos National Bank on the phone today and the lady I was speaking to said things were going well for the town today.  It sounds like the fire is moving North and is mostly behind the ridge west of town and in Valles Caldera moving north.  This would make it heading toward the strip of Santa Clara Pueblo land and the upper section of the route to Cuba.  

The area has been cursed, in 96 there was the Dome fire, then in 2000 the Cerro Grande fire and now this.

There has been a lot of BS about the lab in the media.  There is really zero threat of any nasty stuff getting in the air from the lab.  The only thing of concern from the lab is some of the stuff they did in the "who knew" days.  There is a very small chance that some of the burn areas may have had some ground contamination from decades ago and that could get airborne due to the fire.  That would be a very, very small chance.

I am rambling again.  This is a difficult time for those of us that know and love the area.  It is also a reminder that forests go up quickly and you can't be too careful.

[Bounce]

Thanks for the pics Bounce.

Look at those smiles!

I'm with Slow-Dave on the Spot stalking. You don't have to link your SPOT to TD, SPOT gives you your own private page if you want, just link your friends and be hidden to the scary stalkers out there like Bounce if you want. It's pretty simple in my opinion.

Brunch, you're going to have to help me out here.  The route is published and the rules, which are also published, say the riders have to stay on the route.  So, how is it "pretty simple" to avoid the "SCARY STALKERS" like me by not linking SPOT to TD?  What does SPOT have to do with "scary stalking" when the "scary stalkers" like me know the route?  You've managed to confuse me.

[krefs]

I'm with Slow-Dave on the Spot stalking. You don't have to link your SPOT to TD, SPOT gives you your own private page if you want, just link your friends and be hidden to the scary stalkers out there like Bounce if you want. It's pretty simple in my opinion.

So if Jefe and I had turned our SPOTs off in Colorado, no one would have minded? It's a tough nut to crack - thousands of people online want to be virtual spectators, and we as riders tend to be fine with that, but the stalking thing is a bit of a drag. On the other hand, the SPOTs also do have some added advantages for riders since some bike shops, lodges, and other establishments follow along and will often be waiting and ready for incoming riders, whether it's during normal operating hours or not. Thus, going stealth would stand to impact both racers and virtual spectators. It's not as simple as leave it on or turn it off.

[brunch]

I was being sarcastic about you being scary. I thought that thanking you for the pics first would highlight that but maybe not. You're not scary Bounce, on the contrary it's pics like those that make this forum buzz. I love to see the riders in their native habitat and so does everyone else. I was having fun with you as a scary SPOT stalker who took those pictures of the obviously terrified racers << that's sarcasm again.

A secondary point was that if you don't want to be spot stalked just don't give TD any info from your SPOT. I mean really, it's a satellite locator device posted on a public website voluntarily.

Of course this was a breakthrough year for the TD and the leaders had no way of knowing that there would be so many stalkers/super fans out there. I wouldn't expect racers to stop what they are doing (kicking butt) and reset their SPOT accounts to be private this year but maybe next year those who don't want to risk being located won't publicize their locator beacons. Until then, there's always that power button. I don't want to minimize the scariness of fans behaving badly, there's no excuse for that.

Of course, you are right that if a fan was so inclined they could camp out on the route and find a racer when they went past just by the virtue of two moving points intersecting on a line sooner or later. It's an awful long line though and if that happens then fine, SPOT wasn't even involved.

Sorry for the confusion.

[brunch]

So if Jefe and I had turned our SPOTs off in Colorado, no one would have minded? It's a tough nut to crack - thousands of people online want to be virtual spectators, and we as riders tend to be fine with that, but the stalking thing is a bit of a drag. On the other hand, the SPOTs also do have some added advantages for riders since some bike shops, lodges, and other establishments follow along and will often be waiting and ready for incoming riders, whether it's during normal operating hours or not. Thus, going stealth would stand to impact both racers and virtual spectators. It's not as simple as leave it on or turn it off.

You're right, people would have been royally p*ssed. You'd have been called out for being sneaky and nobody would believe that it was because of the stalkers and not to gain some advantage in the race. When you put it that way its far from simple. I suppose if we wanted simple though, we'd be watching NASCAR.

[Newfydog]

So, the racers are becoming rock stars, and are uneasy with their loss of anonymity.  Well, at least they don't have to ride through a wall of Italian Tifosi like the grand tours.  Welcome to the world of racing.

Perhaps the website needs a warning:  These riders are loners by nature, fatigued, not always able to see straight, and carry bear spray.  Cheer for them at your own risk.

[AZtrailertrash]

So, the racers are becoming rock stars, and are uneasy with their loss of anonymity.  Well, at least they don't have to ride through a wall of Italian Tifosi like the grand tours.  Welcome to the world of racing.

Perhaps the website needs a warning:  These riders are loners by nature, fatigued, not always able to see straight, and carry bear spray.  Cheer for them at your own risk.

LOL, well put. Then again, what kind of privacy is an athlete entitled to when racing / time trialing on public roads, trails etc, on USFS and BLM property that is used by all of us?   Perhaps the folks that enter these non sanctioned events need to adjust their expectations as to what they are entitled to, or what privileges they get while engaging in insane amounts of sleep deprivation in their race against the clock and calendar.

Nah, I'd prefer to leave it on the honor system, the less rules, the better. Seems rules are made to be bent, flexed, cracked or broken, anyways.

[Mrs.BigPoppa]

Anxiously awaiting everyone close to Silver City to wake up and start moving!   I expect hubby (JV) to finish today.  I'll miss him in Antelope Wells due to scheduling/flight/work issues, but will be seeing him on the 3rd.  I'm sure he'll enjoy those few days of rest before I start making him be a tourist for a couple of weeks.