rigid forks on td?

[cccniuk]

So I am experimenting with different set ups for td 2015/16. And so I borrowed a rigid 29er with carbon forks. What i thought would be suitable tyres 2.1 maaxis somethings. Headed to local trail center, via my own off rd route to meet some friends. On the smooth road it was nice. Bit of feedback off the smooth road, as its an aluminium frame. Got to glentress, its trails were in good nick, reasonable amount of mud nothing too bad. Bike struggled, big time. Any rut, dunt, divit on the trail it would nearly pitch you off. Very twitchy. And I consider my self to be quite light footed and have a floaty style  My problem is as I live in Scotland, I don't get to experience washboard roads or big long gravel routes. And I know the last few td and alot of fast times are set on carbon forks, but I just can't get my head round that carbon forks are the way forward. The slow climbs are fine as are the flats but downhill it sucked big time. I even went back up and came back down on a fire road just to see, and I was riding the brakes the whole way. My mates relegated me to their wives group. They were laughing I was puzzled. Is this going to be faster over a hilly route, are the washboards soaked up by the carbon forks or is suspension better? Will my wrists be beat up by day 2. Can a few people give me their experiences. I know I'm not going to win the td, but I would want to be as competive as I can. Peoples opinion on using a hard tail as well would be appreciated. Cheers. 

Chris

[Iowagriz]

What bike/frame and what fork?  Maybe the oddity is somewhere in the mix of those two parts?

I install an older carbon fork onto my El Mariachi each winter and ride it on the gravel roads extensively.  I notice no real difference.

Maybe the axle to crown measurement was way different from what you normally run?

[Marshal]

in general--HT/rigid Steel or Ti frames dampen inherent road vibrations much better than HT/rigid aluminum frames, period!

yes there can be exceptions but as you basically proved--HT/rigid aluminum frame is the one truly poor bike choice for the TDR

So-for the TDR--unless you want to run front & rear suspension-- it really is as simple as going with a HT steel or Ti frame (or select carbon frames)

the choice for rigid or suspension fork, regardless of frame material, is less clear cut, but the trend is to run a rigid fork on steel, Ti or Carbon

[BenjyC]

I've started running steel rigid forks in prep for next years TD.

On my aluminium frame it rattles my teeth out on anything rougher than forestry track but it rides well. I've ridden it on up to 30-40 miles back to back days without issues on my wrists.

I have the intention of swapping my frame out for a 29er Salsa El Mariachi or On One Inbred towards the end of the year and this will hopefully sort out the remaining 'judder' from the trail.

Let us know how you get on  hopefully see you in Banff!

[Chew]

The only tracks in the UK which are similar to US gravel roads are forestry tracks. 99% of the time suspension wont offer benefit over a ridged any you'll have all of the extra weight to carry around.

With ridged forks you want to run a bigger volume tyre. 2.1 is way too narrow. This will allow you to run a lower pressure and give you some 'suspension' which will take out the majority of the trail buzz.

Suspension/ridged for washboards will make no different at all. Imagine riding down a 5 mile cattle grid and you'll get an idea. The gap between the bumps is too large for suspension to have any meaningful use. You'll spend your time moving from one side of the road to another to find the less bumpy bit

[cccniuk]

Update. Got my hands on a carbon forked scott carbon jobbie 29er. However only on flat forest roads not giving it a proper shakedown on decent terrain. Big improvement. Going to borrow it in a few weeks for a weekend and change to bigger tyres, put my own saddle on it, give it a good thrashing!! (Coz its not mine). Will post my update. Thanks for the comments. Cheers all.

Ps benjyc. Rigid aluminium is a poor blend!

[phil_rad]

This is slightly off topic but....  Has anyone mounted water bottle cages to a Niner carbon fork? I was thinking of doing it using the hose clamp cut up inner tube method.

[NathanM]

This is slightly off topic but....  Has anyone mounted water bottle cages to a Niner carbon fork? I was thinking of doing it using the hose clamp cut up inner tube method.

In td2013 Nick had some bottle mounts bonded to his carbon fork by one of the carbon repair shops in the US, they seemed to work very well.
Another option is the Salsa Firestarter Carbon Rigid 29er Fork, it has cage mounts ready to go



 

[phil_rad]

I also just realised that my Niner fork won't work with the Plug, so that's a deal breaker. I either buy an MRP carbon fork or a steel one.

Thanks Nathan! :-)

[fastmtnbiker33w]

I'm a singletrack whore who prefers suspension and beefy tires or at least a ti hardtail with suspension up front and a suspension seatpost.  My divide rig is full rigid steel with carbon fork.  I'm about 90% that I'm going to run a 2.3 up front and at least a 2.2 in the rear so I can drop pressure on the washboard roads.  The carbon fork is awesome, but you still feel the washboard unless you drop pressure.  I've done quite a bit of testing and I prefer to do that with the larger tires than with a faster, lighter, and smaller tire.  I was thinking of running a Knard 3.0 up front, but that thing is a pig.  There's no way you could get me to push that thing around for 3,000 miles.

[PhotoJB]

I was thinking of running a Knard 3.0 up front, but that thing is a pig.  There's no way you could get me to push that thing around for 3,000 miles.

Looking at the 2014 lineup, more than a few of us intend to push that knard along. I find it fast for its size. At 16psi, I can roll it along at 30km/hr on smooth sections plus I can bowl over any rough sections. I guess we'll see.


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[the tortoise]

http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html
The above link is an interesting read about frame materials and comfort. I agree with his conclusions that tires, tire pressure, geometry have more to do with comfort than frame material. I think most people run too high of pressure in their tires. The more uneven a road surface the better a lower pressure tire conforms to it, so you don't waste your energy bouncing up and down. Take some time and a tire pressure gauge to experiment with tire pressure and how it affects the ride and comfort of your bike.
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/article/bicycle-tires-puncturing-the-myths-29245/

[RobD(NZ)]

It's certainly been my experience that tyre choice and pressures have a huge bearing on comfort. I will be riding my Ventana El Commandante belt drive Rohloff rigid niner fork setup as used by Ollie Whalley in 2012. This is mostly to minimize the maintenance and potential breakages as happened to my Carbon Epic in a 12hr down here in NZ at the weekend. My sexy, leggy high-maintenance chain driven epic was no match for the mud-fest and shed the chain part way through. I missed that suspension in the forest but the positive ride on the climbs and confidence that I could keep on pushing made up for it:-)

[Blackhound]

In the 2011 race I rode a Voodoo Scandium frame with Reba forks.  Last year touring, with Chew ^^ there I rode a Niner alu frame and carbon fork.  I thought the washboard roads which I suffered on in 2011 might be an issue but I found it fine.  If I was to go again it would be with a rigid fork. 

[james-o]

"change to bigger tyres"

This is the important bit. There's almost nothing on the route that justifies the weight and potential failures of a suspension fork imo. I'd be happy on an aluminium frame and rigid carbon fork as long as I had big tyres with a wide enough rim to support them at 18-20PSI. For long distances on that kind of terrain the lower rolling resistance of low pressures and the added comfort is good. I used 2.2 Saguaros on 600g P35 rims and it was a pretty good combo of comfort and rolling speed at a fair weight but I'd like to use 2.35 Ikons or similar on even wider carbon rims if I was to do it again. The climbs are steady rather than techy and punchy so heavier wheels made little or no odds to me. 2.0 or 2.1 at 40PSI on narrow rims would be misery imo.

[cccniuk]

Thanks for those that gave opinion and research threads. It was all usefull. I managed to wrangle some 2.4 continentals on my original alu rigid.  Much better at lower pressures. Spent some time on the dirt tracks in the pentland hills with a pump and pressure gauge.  Time well spent. 

Wanted to give them a better test and went down some nasty red run at glentress that most ht would have to carefully negotiate. THESE 2.4 DONT SUCK! What did suck was the twat who had his six year old walk down a thirty five degree slope, straight after a blind corner on a red run!! I only had two options. Take out the kid or test a rigid 29er with 2.4's down a 60 degree cliff.
Lets just say 2.4 may be good for washboards, but there no use on a forty foot 60 degree slope, (slacker head angle needed), especially when theres a big log at the bottom. Giant xtc alu is dead. Long live the on one lurcher!

To be continued! 

Ps if you have a friend or kid who is clearly out of there depth. And is in danger of being in a collision.  Do everyone a favour. Make lots of noise!

[richpips]

Wanted to give them a better test and went down some nasty red run at glentress that most ht would have to carefully negotiate. THESE 2.4 DONT SUCK! What did suck was the twat who had his six year old walk down a thirty five degree slope, straight after a blind corner on a red run!! I only had two options. Take out the kid or test a rigid 29er with 2.4's down a 60 degree cliff.

The red at Glentress is tame. Where are the nasty bits?

As for the kids comments. Get a grip. Maybe you should ride your bike with respect for any other peeps on the trail.

[cccniuk]

Encouraging a kid who is a little slow by making some noise has two purposes.  Encouragement to the child and warnings to those behind.
Considering I broke my frame I delt with things in an extremely courteously manner.  Didnt raise my voice, swear or anything. The lads father contacted me through the cycling club to offer to replace my frame, which I absolutely refused.  We chatted about his lad, mtbing and cycling for his boys.

The nasty bits are made by the conditions. And there are plenty of trails not on the official red route that are way tougher especially on a rigid,
Richpips your more than welcome to come ride with us! And good luck on highland trail. Beware the clegs!

Cheers

Chris

[richpips]

My lad rides with me and rides at his own pace, he'll pass some people, and others will pass him.

If anyone ran into the back of him, or me for that matter it would be their fault.

I regularly see adults out on bikes who not as skilled as my son. That doesn't mean they are "out of their" depth though. They're folk on bikes hopefully enjoying themselves just like us.

Back to your original question, I've done a few 24 hours solos on a rigid bike. Somtimes it took weeks for the numbness to disappear from my hands. My descending speed was only limited by how fast I could turn the fixed gear though. I'll probably do the HTR on a rigid bike too, though I've since learnt to hold the bars much looser, and let the bike do its own thing a bit more.

 

And good luck on highland trail. Beware the clegs!

Thanks Chris, looking forward to it. The bug repellant is packed.

[cobbnat]

Worth trying out the rigid rig with a full TD load. I find that the loaded bike is quite a bit more comfortable, seems to damp the sharper hits.