Best for TDR: Niner Jet 9, Santa Cruz Superlight, or Salsa Spearfish?

[2013TDhopeful]

I am working toward an attempt at the Divide Race this year, but I am disadvantaged by the fact that I live in the Florida Panhandle where the mountain bike selection consists of Mongoose bikes at Walmart.  There is nowhere reasonably close I can go to test ride bikes so I am hoping to get some valuable information from you guys so I can make the best choice possible for a 100% on-line bike purchase (I know this is less than ideal). 


I believe I have narrowed my choice down to the following three full suspension bikes:  Salsa Spearfish (middle of the road complete build), Santa Cruz Superlight (their highest end complete bike), or the Niner Jet 9 (their lowest end SLX complete bike). 


Assuming the sole purpose of buying this bike is for my GDMBR attempt, which of these choices would be my best bet?  Any thoughts on advantages or disadvantages of one of these bikes over the others?  Everything I've read indicates they are all good bikes, just trying to decide which one is best for the TDR.   


The only reason I am buying this bike is for this one ride so I do not want to make any compromises for terrain or conditions outside this race.  Thank you in advance for any information. 

[Norb]

I believe I have narrowed my choice down to the following three full suspension bikes:

Hey there 13tdhopefull,

You might rethink your bike choices since full suspension is really unnecessary for the TD. No need for the extra weight and potential failure of the rear shock. Plus you have better options for bags when you are not dealing with a shock in the triangle.

Lots of rigid frame options out there but you might consider an El Mariachi or a Fargo (add a suspension fork if you like).  Just my opinion....

Best of luck in your race prep and selection of gear. That is a truly rewarding part of the journey!

-N

[BigPoppa]

Hey,

I used a Niner Air 9. Full carbon with no suspension. I'm going to do the route again soon and I will go with no suspension again. I would second the above poster... Think about at least riding a hard tail bike with a suspension fork.

Only you can know your particular riding style and weigh it against your experience but I would seriously reconsider full suspension.

[phil_rad]

I agree with Norb and BigPoppa, full suspension is definitely not necessary on the GDMBR, you'd be better off going with a hardtail and a suspension fork and or a suspension seat post. When I go for another attempt it will be with a fully rigid bike.

Just my 2 cts.

[2013TDhopeful]

After decades of physically demanding adventures without any serious injuries, I finally managed to do permanent damage to my back playing with my 7 year old daughter about a year ago.  I may be wrong, but it seems the full suspension reduces (to some degree) the pounding on my mediocre back.  That is why I decided on the full suspension even though it adds to the number of potential mechanical problems and the overall weight of my bike, but now you guys have me re-thinking it (again)).

I guess I should broden my question and also ask - for those who think a hardtail is a better choice than the three bikes I mentioned (even for someone with a questionable back), what hardtail would you recommend for the CDT that can be purchase as a "complete bike"?   

[BigPoppa]

I have a very bad back, two obliterated lumbar discs with associated nerve damage. The roads on the TD just aren't bad enough to warrant full suspension (heck I only wished for a suspension fork for about 5% of the route).

I would suggest looking into either a Ti or carbon frame. Carbon is a bit harsher than Ti, but it also "feels" faster (which I like). Look into a Niner or Orbea carbon frame (both can be ordered as completes) or maybe check out a Salsa Fargo in Titanium. I know JP has used both a carbon Orbea Alma 29er and Ti Fargo and he ranted and raved about the Fargo. I have an aluminum fargo I use for commuting. It's not too shabby but I probably will use my Niner Air 9 carbon frame when I race again. 

[Done]

A Thudbuster might help your back?

[BigPoppa]

Also, on the topic of back pain and bikepacking.

1) Keep all weight off your back. As in, do EVERYTHING you can to get all you gear on your bike and avoid wearing a backpack.

2) Learn to stretch on the bike and stretch whenever you get off the bike to eat/poop/sleep (if you're racing properly all three might happen at once).

3) Find a good saddle with padding, give, and Ti rails. The WTB Laser V worked wonders for me.

[phil_rad]

Depending on your budget, Ti or carbon will be very expensive. On the other hand a good steel framed 29er will give you a good supple ride at a fraction of the cost of the others. Steel is heavier though.

I agree with BigPoppa; get all of your gear on your bike and off your back. Exception to that is a camelbak for extra water on the long dry sections. 

A thudbuster might help out too if you need some more comfort.

[bmike-vt]

A Thudbuster might help your back?

that was going to be my suggestion.
get the weight off the back, as much as possible, for as long as possible (worst case build your kit for a lite bag for cameling up for longer re-supply stretches).
the thudbuster should be maintenance free unless you blow through the composite material. and its compatible with seat bags (at least the newer ones from revelate, not my older one).
a hardtail will also afford you a larger frame bag, good for more room to get weight off your back.

[pablito]

I am working toward an attempt at the Divide Race this year, but I am disadvantaged by the fact that I live in the Florida Panhandle where the mountain bike selection consists of Mongoose bikes at Walmart.  There is nowhere reasonably close I can go to test ride bikes so I am hoping to get some valuable information from you guys so I can make the best choice possible for a 100% on-line bike purchase (I know this is less than ideal). 


I believe I have narrowed my choice down to the following three full suspension bikes:  Salsa Spearfish (middle of the road complete build), Santa Cruz Superlight (their highest end complete bike), or the Niner Jet 9 (their lowest end SLX complete bike). 


Assuming the sole purpose of buying this bike is for my GDMBR attempt, which of these choices would be my best bet?  Any thoughts on advantages or disadvantages of one of these bikes over the others?  Everything I've read indicates they are all good bikes, just trying to decide which one is best for the TDR.   


The only reason I am buying this bike is for this one ride so I do not want to make any compromises for terrain or conditions outside this race.  Thank you in advance for any information. 

I am new at this route, but what i have read is that it is not necessary to ride a full suspension. As a matter of fact, I am choosing a cyclocross bike with some fatter tires (1.8" - 45c) Ridgid fork, Drop bars, Disk brakes with plenty of room on the inner triangle for bags. Fast, light, but with durable parts. From what i am gathering, the less moving parts you have on the bike the better. Some even opting for single speeds or Rohloff hubs and carbon belt drives. If you are going to buy a bike specifically for this route I would check out a Salsa Fargo. If you are going to build up a Niiner, go with an EMD for durability. I had a Niner Air 9 scandium frame that cracked on my last right out. They were, however, excellent to replace it quickly. Love Niner bikes.

[THE LONG RANGER]

I am new at this route, but what i have read is that it is not necessary to ride a full suspension. As a matter of fact, I am choosing a cyclocross bike with some fatter tires (1.8" - 45c)

I'd be curious to see your setup, especially what tires you're going to use - mostly because I want to put the fattest tires I can on my Cross Check

I know some people started out this past TD with Cyclocross setups with the same sort of ideas that you had, although I don't know how well everyone did. The only person I know for sure who finished with anything approaching a CX setup was Deanna, with a fixie conversion

I've personally ridden from basically Radium to Del Norte on the GDMBR on either a Cross Check with 45c Fire Crosses or with a Salsa... uh, whatever their touring/commuter rig was in ~2008 w/32mm commuting tires, and it worked, although it wasn't the best. There's some harsher parts of the route, like most all of Montana and New Mexico, that's a lot rougher than our well groomed CO roads. It's true the GDMBR ain't all singletrack, but it ain't primarily a gravel grinder, either

[BigPoppa]

Yeah, you have to be careful with the cross frames. The tolerances between the frame and larger tires are pretty tight. If it gets muddy those tires are going to start sticking to the frame pretty quick. I had to hike from brush mountain lodge all the way over the pass until nearly the start of the pavement before Steamboat because of mud that was mid calf deep in places. The mud was so peanutbuttery that I had to continually clear it off the tires just so I could push it along.

I would hate to see what a loaded cross bike would do....

Also, the 2.1" tires I had were awesome for smoothing out some of those tougher sections... 1.8" would have killed me.

To each his own though!

[mikepro]

OP -

Thanks for posting this question, it really got me thinking and investigating bike frames and designs again, and TD-style riding versus other variations of mtn biking.  The question and answers above are also fascinating: like asking the French "which one of these 3 croissants is best for lunch?" and getting the answer "we don't eat croissants for lunch, we eat baguettes - go look at the baguette menu".  I find myself looking to attempt to put into perspective some how:

The TD-style bike has evolved (and rather quickly, I feel) in the past 4-5 years from "any 29er will do, so much better than 26 wheels" and "don't use a metal pannier rack" to "light weight, durable (hence Ti frame), aero-bars, rigid carbon fork" where the 29er aspect is a given.  The development and refinement of soft bags has been awesome it that same time frame as well.  It's a race, and a time trial at that, not a tour.  And it's really, really long.  The event is lends itself towards using a light-weight version of a long-haul trucker touring bike, rather than using a mtn bike that will go the distance.  Hence, the development of and gravitation towards Salsa El Mariachi and Salsa Fargo, and others like them (Moots comes to mind, as does the rig Cjell Money put together last year at some Fort Collins frame shop, or the guy from England who kicked ass on Ti single speed 2 years in a row).  These bikes are highly refined towards the TD-race aspect (a.ka. touring with urgency), especially with the riders that have been involved and the design, and sponsored by these frame/bike companies.  As a mechanical engineer, I like to think: "what is the intended end use of the bike when it's being designed?" or "what's on the engineers' and designers' minds when they are putting this thing together?".  I doubt that during any part of the design/fab/test process for a full suspension bike, anyone involved is designing the rig for the TD-race.  24-hr epic marathon races? ... yes, 20+ day ultra enduros? ... I think not.  And then there's the whole Rohloff hub and belt-drive thing, which I know absolutely nothing about.

I also do quite a bit of "photo studying", where I go back through previous year's TD race forums and blogs and setup posts and look at the pics of the top 10-20 finishers and try to answer basic questions: "what kind of bike/frames are they riding?"; "how many are full squish?"; "how are the bags set up?"; "how many issues with Ti frame cracks have been reported in the TD? (2, over the past 3 years, if I recall correctly)"; and so on ...

You could definitely race the TD on full squish - no doubt - especially if it's a one-time hole-shot purchase and you want the rig for after.  But, you said you are in the market for TD-race-specific-rig ... so I'd look at the past two worth of finishers (not starters), as much as can be gleaned from forums, blogs, reports, etc, and go with that style of bike.  Scott hard tail?  Gary Fisher hard tail?  Moots? Salsa? Ti frame?  Alloy? Steel?

Two years ago, I finished on standard run-of-mill-off-the-shelf Gary Fisher hardtail 29er (one step below Paragon), for less than $2k 'cuz I was short on time and low end budget.  I kept the front fork locked out after day 3, when I realized it was pointless to use the suspension aspect of it.  Not ideally designed bike for the event ... frame cracked at the end; wheels not strong enough and spokes snapped constantly; yaddi-yadda; but ultimately (as has been alluded to above and in countless other threads) it's more about: bike fit, saddle comfort, hand comfort, not overloading your backpack with too much weight, large frame bag vs small frame bag logistics, mental prep, etc., then it is about the kind of bike.

[2013TDhopeful]

Thanks for all the great posts.  You guys have convinced me to go back to the hardtail (which means I wasted an embarrassing amount of time researching FS setups). 

After checking out the bikes you guys suggested, they all seemed like top notch bikes, but I really like the Salsa El Mariachi and the Niner Air 9 the best.  (The Moots and the El Mariachi Ti were my absolute favorites, but too expensive).

Unless someone knows a cheap way to get a Mariachi Ti, I think I'm leaning toward the aluminum Air 9 over the steel Mariachi at this point.  This choice is primarily because everything steel in Florida rusts and to be honest, the Niner Air 9 is a good looking bike.  (Since I can't test ride them all I can do is look at them online and although it may just be their slick website, the Air 9 looks like a mechanical work of art to me).

I do not feel strongly about this decision since I do not know how the Air 9 does for the ridiculous number of hours that it will be ridden each day; so if someone can comment on the wisdom of riding the Air 9 on the TD I would be very grateful. 

If I could start this post anew, I would have asked the following question:  I realize it is a very personal decision, but in general, is an Air 9 just as likely to be comfortable to the average TD racer as the El Mariachi (which seems to be universally liked)?     
   

[BigPoppa]

Steel is probably going to be more comfortable than aluminum.

If cost is an issue, try looking on ebay for frames.

[RossC]

I've seen a lot of broken scandium air 9's. I've never owned one myself but know of quite a few friends bikes that cracked. The steel El Mariachi would be my choice of the two.

[mikepro]

Personally, I find the "glitz" of Niner's website to be distracting and a not-so-positive indicator of quality.  However, to address the OP's question version 2.0 ... in my mind, both frames are just as likely to be comfortable, as long as you get one that's sized for your body, choose a saddle that works for your body, spend $100 to $300 on a quality bike fit session with a local certified bike fit tech, look long and hard at diff types of ergo grips and handle bar style(s), aerobar set-ups, and so on ...

[grannygear]

Thanks for all the great posts.  You guys have convinced me to go back to the hardtail (which means I wasted an embarrassing amount of time researching FS setups). 

After checking out the bikes you guys suggested, they all seemed like top notch bikes, but I really like the Salsa El Mariachi and the Niner Air 9 the best.  (The Moots and the El Mariachi Ti were my absolute favorites, but too expensive).

Unless someone knows a cheap way to get a Mariachi Ti, I think I'm leaning toward the aluminum Air 9 over the steel Mariachi at this point.  This choice is primarily because everything steel in Florida rusts and to be honest, the Niner Air 9 is a good looking bike.  (Since I can't test ride them all I can do is look at them online and although it may just be their slick website, the Air 9 looks like a mechanical work of art to me).

I do not feel strongly about this decision since I do not know how the Air 9 does for the ridiculous number of hours that it will be ridden each day; so if someone can comment on the wisdom of riding the Air 9 on the TD I would be very grateful. 

If I could start this post anew, I would have asked the following question:  I realize it is a very personal decision, but in general, is an Air 9 just as likely to be comfortable to the average TD racer as the El Mariachi (which seems to be universally liked)?     
   

An AIR9 is a super pedaling bike and great handling...feels fast.  But it wears lace up boots and carries a whip as far as frame compliance.  I would NOT want to ride that for a thousand miles unless I was pretty tough, although a Thudbuster would certainly mute that quite a bit.  It is an aluminum race bike and the TDR is a race, but....  I would ride a nice steel frame and give up a pound in bike weight if it was up to me, but I would not expect it to drive forward like that AIR9 will with each pedal stroke.

[pablito]

I'd be curious to see your setup, especially what tires you're going to use - mostly because I want to put the fattest tires I can on my Cross Check

I know some people started out this past TD with Cyclocross setups with the same sort of ideas that you had, although I don't know how well everyone did. The only person I know for sure who finished with anything approaching a CX setup was Deanna, with a fixie conversion

I've personally ridden from basically Radium to Del Norte on the GDMBR on either a Cross Check with 45c Fire Crosses or with a Salsa... uh, whatever their touring/commuter rig was in ~2008 w/32mm commuting tires, and it worked, although it wasn't the best. There's some harsher parts of the route, like most all of Montana and New Mexico, that's a lot rougher than our well groomed CO roads. It's true the GDMBR ain't all singletrack, but it ain't primarily a gravel grinder, either

Changed my set up after doing some experimenting on the largest cross tire. Couldn't really fit anything over a 38c without getting too tight for mud comfort. So I am going with a Niner Air 9 carbon with probably 1.95 low profile tires like GEAX Saguaros (these have weathered so many types of riding well and seal perfectly for tubeless).

What I am trying to decide now it whether to set it up with a 2 x 10, Woodchippers, and road levers. Or a 1 x 11 with a flat bar and twist shift. the latter seems to have way less moving parts and comes with a 10t -42t spread. Could be nice. Just not sure if I will miss the drop bars over the long haul. Any vets out there to help with this part of the prep?