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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #160 on: November 18, 2010, 09:03:51 PM
forest_on_bike


Location: Truckee, CA
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« Reply #160 on: November 18, 2010, 09:03:51 PM »

Matt,

As you will see later in the video, I had a wonderful time celebrating and connecting with you, Blaine, and Kirsten in Silver City. Couldn't have had a better last night in the TD. Thank you.

Rules - First, I don't want to see this event get mired in tons of rules and regulations. It's just not the spirit of this thing. But, I think a little more clarity regarding food and shelter assistance would be good. On one occasion, I was offered food (mentioned in the video) and on another occasion, I was offered shelter (mentioned in a call-in I did during the race). I didn't partake in either of them because I didn't think it was legit. However, it wasn't clear to me what was OK and what wasn't. On both occasions, I would have been much better off had I accepted the offers.

I don't have any thoughts on what the threshold should be, but, whatever it is, I just want it to be clear to everyone. I think providing several common scenarios in which food or shelter is offered and then stating whether it would be OK to accept would really help clarify things.

GPS - I did the race without a GPS, so I know it can easily be done without one. However, I learned that having a GPS gives you a real  advantage in that it minimizes the risk of wasting hours looking for a poorly marked turn. Poorly described or just plain inaccurate cues are not fun and seem unfair in that riders with GPS's can avoid this hazard. It only happened on 3-4 occasions, but each time it could have cost me (or did cost me) hours of daylight. I'm not a fan of technology being the deciding factor in a contest, but if others are going to ride with them, I believe you are at a disadvantage.

I should clarify that this issue had nothing to do with an accurate computer. It has to do with poorly described or inaccurate turns. I know other riders got lost at the same places I did. Interestingly, I did have to recalibrate my computer each time I crossed onto a new ACA map. The difference in how long a "mile" was between the maps was surprising. Another reason to use a GPS.

Lastly, I want to temper all my "complaints" with this: Matt, you know that I think you've done an amazing job with this event and I applaud the openness with which you invite feedback. Your eagerness to have the event evolve and improve is very palpable.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #161 on: November 18, 2010, 09:06:10 PM
forest_on_bike


Location: Truckee, CA
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« Reply #161 on: November 18, 2010, 09:06:10 PM »

Thanks Marshal. I agree.

Something about making the video was very cathartic for me.

I forgot to congratulate you on an excellent ride too.

The last time I saw you was outside of Sparwood. You were on the side of the road, looking a little out of gas. Obviously that wasn't emblematic of your performance, as you chased, right behind me, all the way to the border. Well done.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 05:21:57 AM by forest_on_bike » Logged


  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #162 on: November 18, 2010, 11:41:50 PM
afie


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« Reply #162 on: November 18, 2010, 11:41:50 PM »

memory plus 20 home made profiles (see attached),

I am having trouble opening your .emf file - can you post it in another format?
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #163 on: November 19, 2010, 01:19:56 AM
Blackhound


Location: Derby, UK
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« Reply #163 on: November 19, 2010, 01:19:56 AM »

Forest,

Thanks for sharing.  I do enjoy the 'other' film but this is so much closer to what a racer would see and experience.  My only observation would be that a few short 'interviews' with some of the people you were riding with would have been nice.

For me just riding would be enough to keep me occupied but finding time to film and do some 200 mile days is beyond me.

Looking forward to following in your tyre tracks next summer.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #164 on: November 19, 2010, 05:10:17 AM
Jeff Tomassetti


Location: Fernandina Beach, Florida
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« Reply #164 on: November 19, 2010, 05:10:17 AM »

I have read many accounts from racers who accepted assistance from pure random strangers on the route, such as water from their hose or a barn to sleep in. I hope that stuff is OK, because it is a wonderful human interaction. But the Rule is clear: " No private resupply, no private lodging."

I also have read about folks riding with local friends for a while or being met by family/friends for a meal etc. (clearly shown in the TD movie) That didn't seem fair to those who do not have local support. That rule is: "Only route town locals may visit with, cheer on TD thru-racers. Out-of-town visitation to the GDMBR mid-race from family or friends—even if only a remote possibility for rider rendezvous—is prohibited."
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Jeff Tomassetti

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #165 on: November 19, 2010, 06:33:45 AM
Roland Sturm


Location: Santa Monica, CA
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« Reply #165 on: November 19, 2010, 06:33:45 AM »

Thanks for putting that movie together, I enjoyed watching it as well.

I wonder if there is a recurrent theme about people getting sick in Wyoming with stomach problems? Based on casual observation of reports, it appears to happen more often there than in other states. Of course, could be my selective observation because it forced me down to a 30 mile/day crawl with naps for a few days (touring, never raced). Too much cattle and too little water, so everything is very polluted? Maybe gets on the bottles? Or hands? Some germs in the dust? I fully recovered and was fine in Colorado, but Wyoming was tough.  

CHAINSUCK: A new discovery for me this year after getting a new Niner Air 9. So a different bike, not a Salsa with Raceface, but a Niner with FSA afterburner cranks. But same situation, chain getting really jammed just when shifting down without a good reason (dry weather, no mud causing chainsuck). I also checked with other Niner user who also noticed that as well and I see the telltale chainstay scrapes on recent bikes. I switched to a much lower tech crank with none of the latest shifting innovation, a Shimano LX (currently available for $75), so a 1/3 of the price of the stock crank, replaced the chain, and have not had that problem since. So there could be something with Salsa or Niner frame geometry, but new crank designs play a major role in unnecessary chainsuck.


« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 06:45:59 AM by Roland Sturm » Logged

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #166 on: November 19, 2010, 06:49:01 AM
Slowerthensnot

Have fun and go far


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« Reply #166 on: November 19, 2010, 06:49:01 AM »

I have read many accounts from racers who accepted assistance from pure random strangers on the route, such as water from their hose or a barn to sleep in. I hope that stuff is OK, because it is a wonderful human interaction. But the Rule is clear: " No private resupply, no private lodging."

I also have read about folks riding with local friends for a while or being met by family/friends for a meal etc. (clearly shown in the TD movie) That didn't seem fair to those who do not have local support. That rule is: "Only route town locals may visit with, cheer on TD thru-racers. Out-of-town visitation to the GDMBR mid-race from family or friends—even if only a remote possibility for rider rendezvous—is prohibited."

was wondering when the rules would hit this thread!this has been discussed in detail in other threads  BangHead

On the crank issue/chain-suck thing....  the market has driven the "i want it to super quickly shift up" witch can make down-sifts funny and or suck.... throw is suss can be worse....  try using steel SLX rings steel, cheap, long lasting may need to do some grinding to make them fit on race face or fsa.... Or go 1x9  icon_biggrin
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #167 on: November 19, 2010, 07:48:59 AM
6thElement


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« Reply #167 on: November 19, 2010, 07:48:59 AM »

Funnily enough I was thinking I'd go for SLX, longer lasting rings and easier to remove the crank compared to the dumb 970 XTR method.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #168 on: November 19, 2010, 08:13:13 AM
Marshal


Location: Colorado
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« Reply #168 on: November 19, 2010, 08:13:13 AM »

I am having trouble opening your .emf file - can you post it in another format?


Ok, I saved/attached it as a jpeg file maybe that will open better?  Also here is a blog link back to when I was doing the route prep

http://desertmountaindivide.blogspot.com/search/label/Route

edit--I can see it now on my computer but some of the picture is missing--there are horizontal bar sections on the bottom of the profile representing paved sections


* profile.jpg (50.81 KB, 1246x396 - viewed 402 times.)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 08:16:51 AM by trail717 » Logged


  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #169 on: November 19, 2010, 08:14:22 AM
Mathewsen


Location: North Carolina
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« Reply #169 on: November 19, 2010, 08:14:22 AM »

I think a little more clarity regarding food and shelter assistance would be good. On one occasion, I was offered food (mentioned in the video) and on another occasion, I was offered shelter. I didn't partake in either of them because I didn't think it was legit. However, it wasn't clear to me what was OK and what wasn't. On both occasions, I would have been much better off had I accepted the offers. I don't have any thoughts on what the threshold should be, but, whatever it is, I just want it to be clear to everyone. I think providing several common scenarios in which food or shelter is offered and then stating whether it would be OK to accept would really help clarify things.
Yes, more clarity is always a good. On the Rules page there is an FAQ link after each item to serve almost like a 'footnote' each rule, take the brunt of 'what-if' hairsplitting. They haven't become as populated with hypotheticals as we expected. Feel free to help us get some 'quality' in there now that you have on-course experience with the rules.
I have read many accounts from racers who accepted assistance from pure random strangers on the route, such as water from their hose or a barn to sleep in. I hope that stuff is OK, because it is a wonderful human interaction. But the Rule is clear: " No private resupply, no private lodging."
Slippery slopes everywhere! The TD stance is this: There is a discernible difference between 'Trail Magic' and 'Resupply', and between 'Shelter' and 'Lodging'.

'Magic': Abuse of a trail magic gesture to resupply with calories for the next 50-100mi is not appropriate. Feel free to oblige a gesture so as to participate in (what many describe as) a 'feel-good, breaking-bread moment', but don't gain material advantage from it beyond a good blood sugar spike. Much has been written within the hiking community about trail magic. Suffice it to say it's not necessarily 'all good', or a 'holistic' component of higher-trafficked long trails. Water: private (non-commercial) water resupply is viewed a little differently than food. It is discouraged, but there is no outright ban on it. TD advice is first, 'try not to get shot', and second, consider VERY carefully the quality of the water source. Editorial: TD racers should exemplify the height of backcountry savvy and preparedness (outwardly, at least). ALWAYS consider the effect your conduct has on all adventure cyclists touring the route for years to come. Beer: I've gotten this FAQ before! For better or worse, there is no limit (as of yet) to the amount of beer you may accept, unless it impairs your judgment enough you break other rules. It's not exactly an ergogenic aid. We'll just say 'spirits' fall under the 'break-bread' rule. Let intake be ceremonious, not material.

'Lodging' and 'Shelter': Lodging implies luxuries like a bed, heat, electricity, the ability to bathe (bathing makes a big diff. in overnight recovery). Private lodging is not appropriate. Shelter implies much less and, though not encouraged as a crutch, is not prohibited. One must still employ the full survival kit when seeking 'shelter'. This could be a picnic shelter, an overhang of any building, an abandoned bus, a barn even. The primary moral compass in self-supported/self-fulfilling racing should always be, "OK, how pure do I want to do this thing?" What a great feeling it would be to complete TD having never even sought shelter. I tried to do it last year but fell 'weak' due to that nasty low pressure system parked on Montana day 4/5.
I also have read about folks riding with local friends for a while or being met by family/friends for a meal etc. (clearly shown in the TD movie) That didn't seem fair to those who do not have local support. That rule is: "Only route town locals may visit with, cheer on TD thru-racers. Out-of-town visitation to the GDMBR mid-race from family or friends—even if only a remote possibility for rider rendezvous—is prohibited."
This rule was added for 2010. We live and learn as Divide racing evolves. If we want to keep the emotional landscape part of the same level playing field, this ban is important. Besides, who really wants to be visited by family and friends with such bad hair and B.O.? TD is only ~three weeks away from home. Big kids can do that. Note: Anyone local to a town on the route is allowed to visit with racers as they pass thru that locale. This includes cruising by bike with racers to the town limits sign (or thereabouts). We're not trying to split hairs on local camaraderie. Route town locals who like us and understand the economic driver we can be are our long-term TD allies.

Edit note: added Beer to the trail magic clarification
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 06:26:31 AM by Mathewsen » Logged

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #170 on: November 19, 2010, 08:30:16 AM
Jeff Tomassetti


Location: Fernandina Beach, Florida
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« Reply #170 on: November 19, 2010, 08:30:16 AM »

Marshall, uh,,,,"717" , we can create those profiles with topofusion, right? You didn't use a crayon. Smiley
Jeff
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Jeff Tomassetti

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #171 on: November 19, 2010, 03:36:09 PM
Marshal


Location: Colorado
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« Reply #171 on: November 19, 2010, 03:36:09 PM »

Marshall, uh,,,,"717" , we can create those profiles with topofusion, right? You didn't use a crayon. Smiley
Jeff
Yes I used TopoFusion!!  (great program imo, thanks Scott!!)

First using TopoFusion, the actual route maps, Google earth, race reports etc I chose my own personal 20 strategic ‘split’ points along the route and then used TopoFusion to split the overall track accordingly.

Then I saved the 20 TopoFusion track profiles as individual jpeg files to a working folder and used PowerPoint to add text and graphics as needed.
   
Last I adjusted the jpeg size so as to fit 5 profiles per page and printed two double sided 8.5x14 waterproof pages

The actual file manipulation only took about an hour or two at most.  However I spent a ton of time picking the split points and researching, editing and matching miles/notes on to the profiles.  By the time I was completely done I had almost memorized the entire route.

Comments:
My GPS unit of course had the same exact 20 tracks loaded up, all together this greatly simplified my day to day ‘on the fly’ logistics planning.  Basically between the GPS, an occasional glance at the actual profile sheet during a break mixed in with my accumulated study I pretty much always knew right where I was in relationship to the next key climb, food stop, water source etc etc.   Short of actually riding the route this was as close as I could get to a race veteran’s critical 1st hand route knowledge.

To some my approach may seem like over kill and hence lessen the impact of the actual race experience, if so, so be it.  However for me this in-depth prep was a great way to spend some cold winter nights and paid off big time during the race.  

edit--each profile/track started at mile zero--greatly simplifying on the fly calcs to the next whatever
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 03:39:59 PM by trail717 » Logged


  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #172 on: November 19, 2010, 04:44:57 PM
Jeff Tomassetti


Location: Fernandina Beach, Florida
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« Reply #172 on: November 19, 2010, 04:44:57 PM »

717, your quick ride, at age, uh 54! speaks volumes about route study, pacing etc.
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Jeff Tomassetti

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #173 on: November 19, 2010, 04:53:48 PM
Mathewsen


Location: North Carolina
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« Reply #173 on: November 19, 2010, 04:53:48 PM »

...However for me this in-depth prep was a great way to spend some cold winter nights and paid off big time during the race.  
edit--each profile/track started at mile zero--greatly simplifying on the fly calcs to the next whatever
717's one-off "soothsayer" stage guides are a prime example of why bikepack ultras like divide racing are only a good thing for adventure cyclists as a whole; certainly for the GDMBR, and for nouveau-touring in general.

ACA finally saw the light on custom cue sheets and is now selling the files (pretty cheap) for 2011.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #174 on: November 19, 2010, 06:13:52 PM
Jeff Tomassetti


Location: Fernandina Beach, Florida
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« Reply #174 on: November 19, 2010, 06:13:52 PM »

yeah, I had to beg them for the file last year, since I wasn't racing.
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Jeff Tomassetti

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #175 on: November 21, 2010, 04:57:58 PM
Spoonie


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« Reply #175 on: November 21, 2010, 04:57:58 PM »

CHAINSUCK: A new discovery for me this year after getting a new Niner Air 9. So a different bike, not a Salsa with Raceface, but a Niner with FSA afterburner cranks. But same situation, chain getting really jammed just when shifting down without a good reason

Ditto, Air9, Truvative Noir's.  I blamed the fluting on the tubing but wondered how much of it was just me.  I noticed the tell tale marks on the chopped out BB of another Air9 when I dropped mine off for a warranty replacement though.

Was considering Air9C before TDR but the Scandium jobbie is at least a little more in the disposable price category by the time I've put it through whatever other trips I'll do in the mean time

Cheers
Craig
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SpoonBoy

  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #176 on: November 22, 2010, 03:38:44 PM
6thElement


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« Reply #176 on: November 22, 2010, 03:38:44 PM »

Funnily enough I was thinking I'd go for SLX, longer lasting rings and easier to remove the crank compared to the dumb 970 XTR method.

I'm not ready to commit as I'm still umming and ahhhing over which frame and then which drivetrain, but SLX are on sale for $99, maybe less with their holiday coupons:
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=5425&MODE=SPECIALS
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #177 on: November 24, 2010, 05:35:41 PM
firetwofire


Location: Reno, Nevada
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« Reply #177 on: November 24, 2010, 05:35:41 PM »

First snow just hit in Reno and gave us over a foot in the valley and five in the hills. I guess my riding will slow from here till next spring, this sucks.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #178 on: December 02, 2010, 06:37:49 AM
Seaturdl


Location: Gainesville,Fl.
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« Reply #178 on: December 02, 2010, 06:37:49 AM »

 thumbsup Thanks Marshal for the valuable info on The Tour Divide.  It has really helped me in my planning  logistics for 2011.  Actually thank you to all the veterans of tour divide for posting.
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  Topic Name: 2011 Tour Divide Reply #179 on: December 02, 2010, 08:17:52 AM
trebor


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« Reply #179 on: December 02, 2010, 08:17:52 AM »

There is quite the Florida contingent forming here.... Seaturdl, Jeff Tomassetti, Naked Indian, me.... any othrs?

Should we not be getting together to ride?  icon_biggrin
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Rob Roberts
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