New event in Arizona for 2011 - 2 courses - Thoughts, Interest?

[DesertDog]

The Apache 200 Enduro

and

The White Mountains Epic 80


2 courses through the White Mountains trail system around Show Low and Pinetop, AZ and a tour of the high-country region of Sunrise, Greer, Mt Baldy, Big Lake and South Fork.  200 mile and 80 mile options.  Both start from the Timber Mesa TH, with ample dispersed camping sites in the area.

This will be a fast, fun course with lots of excellent singletrack!  It may hurt you, but it's not made to punish you.  Elevations range from ~6500 - 9500'.  2 great courses for both self-supported racing and weekend bikepacking.

The Epic could be done as either a 1 or 2 day ride.  This is an even better Tour of the White Mountains than the official TOWM.  Los Burros campground and trail are at about the midpoint of the ride for camping opportunities on a 2 day ride.  Water for all at the campground too.

On the Enduro, I know someone can push it and complete this in under 24hr!  I'd really like to see that.  For a 2 day ride, Big Lake and the surrounding trails provide plenty of camping options at the halfway point.

The map below is pretty close to what the final enduro route will be.  I'll be back up there in September or October to complete mapping and check out some other areas in the region.  I've got even more singletrack I have to add to make both course distances!

[AZTtripper]

I have always thought it would be cool to do a bikepacking trip up that way. I have been up there a few times camping with my wife, we really like the Big Lake area. The whole White Mountain system is a great bunch of trails and the TRACKS people to a great job of keeping stuff open. The 200 miler looks like a great 3-4 days at a moderate pace depending on how much single track there is 2 days would be a push for me. Which way would the course run clockwise or counter, what time of year early summer or fall seems best as a lot of these trails get supper sticky during summer storms.

[DaveH]

The 200 looks sweet.  I've been up Baldy decades ago...super nice region.

Under 24 hours for 200 miles at elevation?  That's a tall order for anything but road.

[DesertDog]

The 200 looks sweet.  I've been up Baldy decades ago...super nice region.

Under 24 hours for 200 miles at elevation?  That's a tall order for anything but road.

I don't know.  I've seen your time for the Kaibab MonsterCross! 
Could you keep the pace up for those extra miles/hours?

[DaveH]

There is a good bit of road on the Kaibab, and it's all done in the daylight.  The night would change the dynamics of a 24 hour attempt on the 200...who knows?  There's only one way to find out, eh?

[DesertDog]

I have always thought it would be cool to do a bikepacking trip up that way. I have been up there a few times camping with my wife, we really like the Big Lake area. The whole White Mountain system is a great bunch of trails and the TRACKS people to a great job of keeping stuff open. The 200 miler looks like a great 3-4 days at a moderate pace depending on how much single track there is 2 days would be a push for me. Which way would the course run clockwise or counter, what time of year early summer or fall seems best as a lot of these trails get supper sticky during summer storms.

Both courses run counter-clockwise from Timber Mesa and should run together until the North end of, and end of the downhill run on, Los Burros.  I actually did change the 200 course to make sure the downhill was included.  There are some things that aren't on the map yet, but it will all be finalized the first or second week of September.

As for the date, I'd like to go for June 18-19, the last chance for a spring fling.  I was up there last month the 19th-22nd for the solstice, conditions and weather were wonderful!  

By the way, I wouldn't be able to do the 200 in 2 days either.  The 1 or 2 day suggestions are simply for trying to make this something of an event over a weekend.  Starting from Greer or Pole Knoll, you can do a nice 2 day, ~80mile trip, which probably should be a third route in the area.  Singletrack, backcountry or dare to want it all!

[DesertDog]

There is a good bit of road on the Kaibab, and it's all done in the daylight.  The night would change the dynamics of a 24 hour attempt on the 200...who knows?  There's only one way to find out, eh?

Indeed!

[AZTtripper]

There is a good bit of road on the Kaibab, and it's all done in the daylight.  The night would change the dynamics of a 24 hour attempt on the 200...who knows?  There's only one way to find out, eh?

Indeed!

I would also say that the 18 miles of ST on the Rainbow Rim has to be some of the easiest trail around. I have done most of the trails in the White Mnts. and there is a fair bit of slow rocky riding not that that's a bad thing.

Mid June sounds perfect this one also seems like a great candidate for a stage race of 3-4 days. If people really want to do one of these events they should be willing to take a couple of days off of work.

[DaveH]

As for the date, I'd like to go for June 18-19, the last chance for a spring fling.  I was up there last month the 19th-22nd for the solstice, conditions and weather were wonderful!

I'd vote for a week earlier.  The Dixies will be somewhere around June 24-26.  If the enduro went the weekend prior that would essentially count me out...and others would need to choose between the two.

[Chad B]

I would love to do both routes! Late September or maybe Labor Day weekend?

When you find out a date for both, posting them on the Arizona Endurance Series Google Group would be a fast way to spread it to about 400 potential endurance riders.

[AZTtripper]

I agree it would be good to try to put a free weekend in between this and the Dixie just in case someone wanted to do both. 

[DesertDog]

I'd vote for a week earlier.  The Dixies will be somewhere around June 24-26.  If the enduro went the weekend prior that would essentially count me out...and others would need to choose between the two.

With the snow issues and rerouting, I wasn't sure if the Dixie weekend timeframe was going to remain the same.  I guess the route is diabolical enough without the additional hurt!?

A week earlier shouldn't be a problem.  Trails were in great shape, even with the hard Winter they had up in Eastern, AZ.  If the date stays in June (follow the posts), I'll make it the 11th and 12th or longer for those who choose an extended stay.  A week off before doing the Lite would definitely be good for me.

[DesertDog]

I would love to do both routes! Late September or maybe Labor Day weekend?

When you find out a date for both, posting them on the Arizona Endurance Series Google Group would be a fast way to spread it to about 400 potential endurance riders.

Oh, I've been planning on having this event added to the AES schedule.  Just thought I'd guage the interest here first.  I can get everything worked out, finalized and ready for launch this season though.

So, how about we make it a sorta 'course(s) preview weekend', (though if anyone feels it, the record book will be blank) starting Friday, September 24.  As in 2 months from now, the first weekend of Fall.  Everyone can gather and camp Friday, then we all start out on Saturday morning.  Just pick your course, pace, any riding partners and enjoy!

For those who have been posting on the group and intro to bikepacking trips thread, you're welcome to plan something around the Epic course.  Or, if you need, I can come up with a shorter and differently routed 'group' course.  Just need to know whether you prefer campgrounds or dispersed sites.

Hey, I'm all for trying something a little different to bring more people to this sport/activity/pursuit!

[DesertDog]

In case you're not looking at new threads, here's a link:
http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,932.0.html

[Marshal]

Hi, DesertDog

If I can swing it work wise I might be up for the enduro at a turtle tour pace with my 'full' bikepacking kit and I have some basic route questions:

So Los Burros campground has 'for sure' available water? (looks to be about mile 70 on the route, right?) 

Any other 'for sure' water spots later on the route? Like the water tank at mile 100, does it have water? (I have no problem filtering, just don't want to mess with brown/murky or stagnate lake/pond water)

Other than around the start/finish area does the route pass any lodges/stores that sell food?  If so, location and hrs if known?

Whats the overall road, single track, breakdown?  Are very many miles covered in the loose 'fist' sized rocks like allot of AZ Single track & forest roads are known for?  Trying to make a decision between my HT or FS

Thanks
Marshal

[AZTtripper]

Marshall

I am pretty sure I have ridden most of this course on day trips and I can say the trails up there are great I think you enjoy this one. For the most part the trails are not as loose as what we ride in the 300, imagine all of those loose rocks stood up on end and embedded in the ground with a bunch of bigger rocks thrown in just for fun. It's not that bad and mostly very fun, on the other hand this area is notorious for peanut butter dirt that sticks like glue when wet. Bikes can easily double in weight, riders in the Tour of the White Mountains have dropped their bikes and walked out. The dirt is different over by Big Lake more sandy and not as much sticky stuff.

DesertDog

I'll send you an email if I could get the GPX for this that would be great not sure I can make it this fall but I would like to do the full loop at some point.  

[DesertDog]

Thanks for the assist. 
I just hope the weather does cooperate. 
If the people like it, I'd like to have a yearly event the 2nd week of June - usually a nice, dry time.

Marshall, hit the event site and check out some of the images (links on the main page - my general Photo Gallery too!
If you're not going for speedy and light, why wouldn't you take the FS?

For the .GPX file, go to the site and check the TrackFiles page.  Preliminary track files for all 3 courses.

http://sites.google.com/site/dirtypursuits/whitemtns2010


I did make a mistake on the Los Burros water.  There is a spring there, but I'll have to see if it is running.  Not a necessary stop, just figured it could be a convenient refill point.  May just reroute there and drop a few miles from the WMTS stage?

I will be going back up to the area for an extended trip over Labor Day.  I'll be gathering info and mapping water sources along the way.  I'll have a waypoint file (and final courses) available shortly afterwards, which will include water sources and more. 

For resupply, there will essentially be Greer (plenty of options) and the Big Lake store(http://www.biglakeaz.com/).  May be something elsewhere too, just have to see while I'm exploring over the holiday.

All for now, hope you make it up there!

[Marshal]

Thanks for the assist. 
I just hope the weather does cooperate. 
If the people like it, I'd like to have a yearly event the 2nd week of June - usually a nice, dry time.

Marshall, hit the event site and check out some of the images (links on the main page - my general Photo Gallery too!
If you're not going for speedy and light, why wouldn't you take the FS?

For the .GPX file, go to the site and check the TrackFiles page.  Preliminary track files for all 3 courses.

http://sites.google.com/site/dirtypursuits/whitemtns2010


I did make a mistake on the Los Burros water.  There is a spring there, but I'll have to see if it is running.  Not a necessary stop, just figured it could be a convenient refill point.  May just reroute there and drop a few miles from the WMTS stage?

I will be going back up to the area for an extended trip over Labor Day.  I'll be gathering info and mapping water sources along the way.  I'll have a waypoint file (and final courses) available shortly afterwards, which will include water sources and more. 

For resupply, there will essentially be Greer (plenty of options) and the Big Lake store(http://www.biglakeaz.com/).  May be something elsewhere too, just have to see while I'm exploring over the holiday.

All for now, hope you make it up there!

Thanks for the info.

If I make it down I will most likely use my HT as it’s still all built up form the TDR while my 69er FS is just a bare frame in the basement at this point in time.  Also the HT has a huge ol frame bag that I have come to love and finally I am having vague thoughts of doing your event single speed.  Did I really just write that? ? ? Single speed would be a sort of sink or swim scenario for me as I have a sum total of 1 hr on a borrowed SS

Anyway, I have the gpx file up on TopoFusion and today up on Google so I have already answered most of my logistical questions. 

That said any real ‘on the ground’ data about reliable water sources is critical for stress mitigatigation and any info on food sources/hours is always nice, perhaps some ice cream on a hot day or maybe hot soup on a cold day.

[AZTtripper]

Thanks I didn't see the track files off to the side. Seems like there should be a lot of water sources up that way. Looks like the store at Big Lake stays open until sometime in mid November.