Can you carry more food when cooking with a stove?

[chickenwing]

Hello, new to the forum.

I can carry 3 days dry food (beef jerky, fritos, clif bars, etc) on my current setup. This summer I'm doing a route with 5 days between food resupply.

I've never been a stove person, but if I can carry more food with a stove setup (oatmeal, instant potatoes, ramen, etc.), then I'll become a stove convert.

Any input or links would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[bmike-vt]

The stove takes up room... so, can you fit a stove, fuel, etc. along with any extra food?

[chickenwing]

I made a beer can stove, I'd get a small cook pot, would need minimal gas, so it doesn't seem like it would take up much room.

Anyone already go through this comparison to see if a minimal cook setup can hold more days of food than raw food?

[black_labb]

I would say that it really depends on what you call food. If you consider carrying food the same thing as carrying calories then you don't save any weight by carrying a stove. Fats and sugars don't need cooking. If you want something that resembles a meal then you can save weight once your trip involves a number of days between services. How many days depends on the weight of your cooking setup. The other thing is that for short trips your body can tolerate a lack of fibre, vitamins etc. that energy dense uncooked food has but for longer trips it isn't good. Of course eating the same stuff day in day out for all meals of the day can be pretty depressing for some people; some people don't mind.

Water for cooking is another consideration. Lightweight cooking food tends to save weight by being dry and you add water in the cooking process. If you are somewhere where it is easy to find water then you may be able to cook near a watersource or only carry water a short distance. If water is hard to come across you may have to be carrying water for cooking and cleaning for half the day or taking it out of your drinking water.

If you are resupplying on the trip or don't have everything available at the start of your trip you may find that cooking is the better bet as you can't get a hold of all the items you want. If you start your trip at an outdoor mecca with time to spare before you start your trip and you are a local or at least speak the local language then getting all the things you want for uncooked or cooked meals in a light package is easy. If you are in the boonies, don't speak the language or similar then being able to cook can really open your options. I did a 3 month trip in the backwaters of Siberia and every shop I went into all the things to buy were on the other side of the counteer and you asked the clerk for it. You had to know the word for what you wanted or be able to identify it from the a bit of distance away and point and ask for it. The regular stocking up for 3-7 days would have been very challenging if I couldn't cook food.

I haven't done the comparison to see where the weight is. If you want to figure it out the best way is to plan a typical days food for not cooking and another for cooking including fuel used. Figure out the difference and compare that to the additional weight needed for the cooking setup (stove, pot, fuel bottle etc) by dividing the additional weight needed for the cooking setup by the difference in food weight consumed daily (assuming the cooked food is lighter). The result should be the number of days that you take the same weight cooking as not cooking. Longer trips you save weight by cooking, shorter you add weight.
 
Personally I prefer to carry cooking stuff. Cooking up a nice meal at the end of the day is something I enjoy despite it taking time out of your day. If you are racing then the time taken cooking may be too long.

[chickenwing]

Good points black_labb. I'm fine with cold raw food, so I guess calories would be my main priority.

I have this rei dividend and I was thinking of buying a ridiculously expensive titanium cook pot to round out a possible cook set. However, if cooking doesn't allow for a few extra days of food over raw dry food, then I think I'll pass. I'm definitely not a racer but I'm just very lazy when it comes to cooking in camp, especially when the mosquitoes are out and about.

Thanks for the input.

[Lentamentalisk]

Yup, again depending on where you are, if you are prepping for this in advance, or this is a 5 day stretch in the middle of a longer trip but...

If you aren't cooking, chances are, all your food already contains all its water. This can be very very heavy over 5 days. However there are a fair number of cold meals that you add water to, like humus powder, cereal with milk powder, etc.

But like mentioned, if you are going to get clever with non-cooking food, you need to have purchased all these things in advance, from a good grocery store, not in some small town gas station that is the last service for 5 days.

[chickenwing]

This is five days between what I'm guessing to be decent grocery stores, but I probably won't have a bunch of time to portion out five days of cook food, etc.

Humus powder! Didn't even know that was a thing. I'll have to find some.

I think I'm going sans stove. Time to look into more items like humus powder and powdered milk options. Thanks!

[Lentamentalisk]

It sounds like you already have some meal staples figured out, but do a quick google search for no-cook backpacking meals. The meals all tend to focus around protein, which is great for breakfast and dinner. Biking is very high intensity relative to hiking though, so you'll find you need a much higher percentage carbs for keeping you fueled during the day than a typical backpacker. For example, trail mix is basically the only thing I eat all day while hiking, but while biking I can't stomach it.

[harryonaspot]

Almost every where,  a fire is an option. A large titanium cup weighs little. You can cook or heat up lots of foods. And it's cheerful

[THE LONG RANGER]

Fire is many times not an option in this neck of the woods, when fire bans are on, or there's a general ban on collecting firewood in the area. If it is (and collecting firewood is OK) I would go sans stove, a grill, and a pot.

I think a UL stove system is fine idea, but I'd just go with aluminum. Ti seems to have some undesirable traits when it comes to cooking (hot spots). Unless all you wanna do is boil water/melt snow. 

[chickenwing]

So in case anyone is interested... here is a list of no-cook, calorie dense foods that I've seen listed on through-hiker forums.

CPO = calories per ounce

Olive oil 240 cpo
Fritos 180
Peanut butter 165
Almonds 160
Nutella 150
Nestle Nido 150
Peanut M&Ms 140
ProBars 125
Museli 98
Instant oats, grits, and potatoes are usually around 100 to 140 calories per packet or serving.

I had never heard of Nestle Nido before. Pretty psyched to check that one out.
 

[mtnbound]

If going without a stove but still looking for carb dense meal that is satisfying/filling, you may want to check out packaged backpacking meals, like Mountain House.  You just open the package, add water into the package and wait 30-45 minutes.  Of course, this is not an option for racing but if you are going a slower pace and setting up camp each night, you add water first, then set up camp (tent/tarp, sleeping pad, etc.), take care of other camp stuff and it will be ready to eat.  Sure, the meal will be cold but for many of these meals, the water is really just re-hydrating (not cooking) the food and the heat doesn't do anything other than make it warmer and take less time (though setting up a stove, boiling water and still waiting for it to re-hydrate takes time too).  Definitely not light weight meals (no idea on CPO) and some meals it may not work well for.  Just another option.  

Some of these meals are pretty decent tasting (YMMV) and packed full of calories. There is also no mess to clean up - just eat right out of the package.  It is worth noting that many of these meals are made for 2 people so lots of calories (some have 600 to 700 calories per package) - but if you had a long, hard day of riding, it shouldn't be a problem.

[offroute]

If you aren't cooking, chances are, all your food already contains all its water. This can be very very heavy over 5 days.

That's the crux of it in my mind. If water resupply is plentiful, it makes sense to carry as little as possible, including in your food.

I've had great service from a snow peak isobutane stove and ti cup. That plus one small fuel can and foil windscreen is a pretty small, convenient kit. A hot beverage in the AM and freeze-dried/dehydrated meal after riding is a good compliment to snacking all day.

Depending on the ride, a stove can be a safety item and allow you to slice the clothing margin a little thinner. I have used one to bring up core temp, and was glad to have it.

I'd say the answer to your initial question is yes.

[chickenwing]

Well, too late now. Already spent my rei dividend on other items and it's hard for me to pay full price for a ti cook pot. $60 seems kind of crazy but I'm sure I'll buy one at some point.

I can tolerate several days of gas station food in a row, so I think I'll load the frame bag with as many crushed down bags of fritos (and similar items) as I can. And if that doesn't work on a triall run, then I'll fess up and try cooked meals.

[evdog]

I generally like a warm meal when bikepacking even if it is just a backpacker meal.  I'll often bring one of those and then a pack of instant potatoes for a second dinner which I reheat in the empty backpacker package from the first day.  My setup is pretty minimal, the soda can stove, a bit of alcohol and a ti pot.  You can use just a metal soup can if $ is an issue, weight difference is not significant.   

Honestly I don't think carrying a stove vs not is going to change the volume or weight of food you carry.  Your load may be lighter with a stove as you can bring more dehydrated food but that savings may be offset by the weight of stove, fuel and bowl.  I would go based on your preference, if you want warm food bring a stove, or if you don't care or prefer less prep time leave the stove at home.

[chickenwing]

Good points evdog. I'd be interested to see a quick trial of cook vs no cook. It's surprising I can't find this info on any UL backpacking sites or anywhere else. But I think you're probably right, it all depends on if you prefer cooked food or fritos.

Very good point about using an empty soup can as a cook pot. I had my head so stuck in the rei website that I forgot to look outside the box.

Thanks! 

[bmike-vt]

But a backpackers freeze dried chili with crushed Fritos over the top....

👍

[bmike-vt]

You can do the beer can stove and beer can pot and go all ultralight. I did that for awhile. Got tired of waiting for hot water / finicky homemade stoves and went at first to a snow peak stove (like the MSR pocket rocket) and eventually to the heavier but super convenient MSR Windburner integrated setup.

If I was racing / competitive or even trying to beat a personal achievement I'd probably forgo the stove but that means no hot coffee...

[dustytires_and_tinyfires]

Hello.  Brand new here.  I've never done a 5 day trip before but I couldn't imagine not taking a stove.  I use a Trangia mini set which is for one person but can work for two.  It's not much bigger than a pot or about the size of a 2 person mountain house meal.  It comes with a pot, a small non-stick frying pan, a small base/windshield and a burner and a pot handle that looks flimsy but works wonderfully.  It is 6 inches in diameter and 2 1/2 inches thick and weighs 12 oz.  You can store enough fuel in the burner for about 35 min. of heat.  It burns denatured alcohol.  I go through about 6 oz. per day. 

I eat Oatmeal with dried fruit for breakfast (1/2 cup dry) so 2 1/2 cups oatmeal would take care of breakfast with some dried cherries or raisins.  I use those rice and pasta side dishes like knorr for lunch and they don't take up a lot of room.  So 5 of those plus some tortillas and peanut butter.  Then 5 two person mountain house meals for dinner.  Then snacks like cliff bars and little Debbie brownies (350 calories each and small) and some nuts.  I could do it but I'd have to get a bigger pack.  I use a small pack to carry my food for 2 days now.  I'd have to take my stove.  Heck I take it on day rides because stopping to make coffee is like a religion to me.   

Robert

[Bob]

I'm with The Lone Ranger on this: here in the UK fires are most definitely not a sensible option. Camping/bivying bans have been introduced in places like the Loch Lomond national park, in part because of camp fires. It's not bikepackers doing it but the end result is the same.

The old army rationing system was 1Kg (2lbs) per man per day, even today that figure isn't far off - you either carry pre-cooked food or take dried stuff and either carry the water or rely on finding a supply at or near your camps. You don't need to replace *all* the calories you expend, most of us <cough, cough> carry a little more than we need to so can run to a smallish deficit for some time.

I've not tried any of the newer commercial dried meals so can't comment on those. On our last trip we had commercial sachets of couscous with herbs and spices, took a beer can stove, added 200ml of boiling water, waited a few minutes and then added some tuna. Couscous doesn't need constant heat applied unlike rice or pasta so is more fuel efficient. You also need to work out how much fuel you need per day for any cooking or making of brews in order to figure out whether cold or cooked is better for you.