JosiahM, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the history of this sport. But the original racers tended to be very strict when it came to following the rules. For the most part, they were very "pure."

It's only more recently that people have begun to approach the sport in a more leisurely style--which often includes taking many rules with a grain of salt.

but they were also responsible for governing themselves.  it was completely on their own conscience when they did not follow the rules.  And, in my personal opinion, adding a 3rd party governing body seems to always take personal responsibility and conscience out of the hands of the individuals, which generally leads to people looking for more ways to cheat.  case in point, tour de france....
another example was in school whenever I was in tests, there were always certain people who would cheat on the tests.  even though there were professors and proctors watching for them to cheat, they would find a way to cheat when the professors turned around.  the problem wasn't that the professor turned around or walked to the other side of the room.  The problem was that the individuals did not hold themselves to a high enough standard to learn the material instead of cheating.
my opinion is just one of many opinions, but I just fear that if these events become less grassroots(self regulated, self governed and personal responsibilities) and more outside governed, then there may be more and more people relying on the governing body to be responsible for them and regulating them so they don't have to regulate themselves or be responsible for their own moral conduct.
what I've seen in races with governing bodies is that many people will break the rules whenever the officials are not looking.  what I have seen in these self governed races is that most the people there want to be responsible for themselves and do a good job doing so.
oh well.  like I said, that's only my own opinion based on my own experience, which is fairly mute in a world of other opinions, I guess.

Edit Note:
My comment on the moral character of other riders is based on my experience with people in other similar events, not this one in particular.  maybe the people in the other races I have attended were not representative of those on this particular race.

I think the split seems to be between the people who want to race on a fair playing field and people who want to ride the route in order to 'be a part' of something. I think both are good reasons to be out there, and I think that both groups should have the opportunity to be tracked by Trackleaders, but I think that showing up to the Grand Depart and then cutting the course and then still claiming to be part of the "race" (and then sending nasty hate-mail to Scott and Matthew when relegated) shows a lack of respect to the people who are out there racing and following the rules of the Gentle(wo)mans agreement, whether they're at the front, middle, or back of the pack.

I don't care how fast people ride the thing, but I do believe that when you show up to the start of the event, you're agreeing to respect the rules.

No, we don't need the UCI, or WADA, or USAC, but it seems pretty clear that a free-for-all with no governing rules isn't what people are looking for. If you want to do your own thing and make up your own route, go touring. It's a wonderful activity and you meet a lot of really amazing people along the way.

I think we all kind of want the same thing.  I think the difference of opinion is just what it takes to get it there.
I've been a part of organized and officiated races and I've been a part of these style races.  I can say that the reason I have drawn to these grassroots style rides/races is simply because I have enough chaos in my every day life and I wanted to spend my vacation time experiencing something that allowed me to completely escape all of that and not worry about the rest of the world or what anyone else is doing.  I know this whole discussion is in good intent.  However, for me, all the back and forth trying to enforce and create new rules and standards kind of takes away from what is so simple and awesome about these events in the first place.  And all the accusations and animosity, while trying to make the race better, could actually destroy the race for what it is today.  I, for one, have developed a bad taste in my mouth towards these races simply because of all the bickering that has come out of this forum.  Maybe what we really need is for more of the 'pure' riders to be out there riding the rides in a 'pure' fashion and setting a good example for all the others?  self-govern! (yeah I know some people won't, but that's their problem and a lie they will have to live with for the rest of their lives)

I find it odd that it is almost completely the people who seem to be 100% against all organizationally governed races are the same people who are pushing for bikepacking style races to become one of them.
These races are only what each individual rider wants it to be.  If a rider chooses to skirt around the "rules" outlined for the bike ride that he is on, then he is only shorting himself out on the experience.  Other racers have nothing to gain by pointing fingers or bringing other people down for their own personal perception of what the ride means to THEM.
Of course people should be encouraged to ride these rides to the higher level of respect for the self supported intent of the ride's conception.... but they should be encouraged to do that for the sake of getting the most out of their own experience.
Any given person who chooses to toe the line at any one of these events comes from a different background and they all have a different idea of what they want to get out of the ride (emotionally, etc).  I don't think any one person has the right to judge others out there based on their own perceptions of what they think the ride should be.
Each of the people out there have made great sacrifices to be there and are all after a different experience.  For some people, part of the experience they are wanting to get from this ride is to share memories with people who they meet along the route... some people will choose to use their ride to uplift and encourage all the local people they meet along the route as well.  I'm pretty sure that many of the proposed rules and restrictions listed requiring racers to turn their nose up to everyone they meet along the route would limit any rider from having these kind of experiences.
My last thought it this... I am really taken back by all the comments that people who do not intend to race at a competitive pace should not be allowed to be on trackleaders.  trackleaders is a great website allowing loved ones to monitor a riders location and make sure they are on route and has plenty of clues to let people know if things are not going right.  Not only would limiting this service hurt the riders and their family, but it also hurts the income source for the very website that you are using to make these comments.  why should you get to decide who trackleaders can and cannot sell a service to???

after all my rant, I guess the point was to say that the whole idea of this ride is to make the most of your own experience when you take this once in a lifetime opportunity to journey across the states and not worry about the experience that others around you may be having or not having.  Either that or we can call UCI to come organize these races and we can all give blood samples and pee in a cup every day to prove we aren't cheating.

SOMEBODY needs to do that. And Mark seems like a likely candidate!

next year's winner should try to do it and see if they can finish before the last ctr finisher

Scratched. Had a bad crash lastnight coming down the jeep road into mt Princeton hot springs lastnight. Got scraped up real good but continued to push a couple more hours with Adam. This morning, the effects of the crash on my back reinjured an old pinched nerve in my back, locking up my right glute and hamstring to where hike a bike would be impossible. Good luck to everyone out there still racing


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any idea when all the racers will be up on trackleaders? it would be nice to be able to send my link out to my family before I fly out for the race tomorrow

I'll get on it ASAP!

thanks Toby for all the work on the GPX.
it's a great asset to have out on the trail to have your file that I trust to give me confidence that I am on the right path.  It's also nice not to have to stop and think about trail intersections (some of them can be quite confusing to someone with brain fog)

Still planning to  be at the start. Is there a pre-race racers meeting/dinner/beer tasting?

hope so
maybe early saturday afternoon/evening so we can still get to bed early.

About a month out ya'll! Monsoon season in SW Colorado has been in full swing for the last week, so hopefully after a month we'll get a reprieve.

If you want a SPOT tracker or want to add yours to the trackleader webpage, go here:  http://trackleaders.com/ctr-signup

It's probably a good time to remind everyone to donate what they can to the CTF.  I know last year, the CTF expressed great gratitude towards the CTR because of all the support they received from CTR riders.  We want to keep up that generosity in supporting the CTF since they support us and what we do.

Can anyone tell me if this link is where one crosses Co 114 to pretty much start the Cochetopa hills bypass?

yep.
if you are going southbound, you will drop on 114 from county road 31CC just to the east of that pull out and will connect back up with the trail going south from 114 at the pull out you have marked on the map.

[Re: Apple?]

Re: Apple?
Not that I am going to rely on Apple's oasis, but anybody know if he is going to be on the CT this summer? And didn't he change location from years past? He wasn't around when I went thru in '12. Would love to shake his hand and thank him...
-Barry

I was wondering the same thing.  it's not so much a matter of wanting him to be there so I can take his food.  Really, what he brings to the CTR is just something to look forward to.  it's not about the calories that he provides, but the mental boost of seeing him out there and having a reason to stop for a moment.  It's always great to have his camp there to break up that long stretch of nothingness and loneliness.

Mathew, thanks for taking the initiative to make the phone call. Had he not had cell reception, that call could have been very important to ensure his safety.
I don't know the guy, but I sure am interested to hear his story and hoping for a positive outcome for him.

I think what bruce is really suggesting isn't a separate race or subset of race rules.  It seems what he is suggesting is a pact.  A group of riders racing the tour divide join a pact to be stopped for an 8 hour period every night.
it's actually kind of a cool concept that would give the advantage to the racers who are actually stronger riders rather than the riders who have the highest tolerance to little sleep.
I don't think it would ever make it into the rules books for any of these events, but if a group of racers select to join a pact to race with this style, I would love to sit back and watch how all their strategies play out and all this.  Maybe you could even get Scott to add a category on the trackleaders page so we can sort by the people in that pact to compare these people with each other.
but I agree with everyone on here that similar rules should never be imposed on the race itself (unless we start to see people pushing themselves to a severely dangerous state of sleep deprivation and putting the name of bikepacking at risk)

I was in colorado this weekend doing a ctr prep ride with Scott Shirey and we ran into Jill Hueckman on climbing of Boreas pass.  I had a good chat with her for the last third of the climb and she was in great spirits and seems excited about the journey... and pedaling strong as well.  It was great meeting you, Jill and keep up the good work.

I think CTR is a love/hate relationship for everyone.
If you didn't feel crushed/defeated/suffering throughout the ride, then it wouldn't be such an overwhelming sense of relief/accomplishment/joy when you finish it.
anything worth doing isn't easy(or so we tell ourselves every year when we come back for more)

Ok look, sorry to sound like a stingy bastard. Sometimes I feel like people are asking for hard earned info that people have spent years researching, experiencing, and finding on their own - and that it shouldn't be so easy to get key beta like hard to find water sources. Maybe it was just the way you posed the question that rubbed me the wrong way - seemed more like a demand than a discussion point.

At the end of the day though, yes it's a forum for discussion and I'm just stirring the pot (maybe I should leave that to Toby though  ).

woodland, I do appreciate your sentiment of wanting to make sure people do the due diligence of required research on their own.  however, for those of us who don't live in colorado and don't have access to go out and ride any of these sections of trail to explore, our only source of finding this kind of information out is sources such as this forum and sifting through various blogs (both of which require that someone give up that information for that sake of the community helping each other achieve their goals out there).  I would say I would have never been able to complete this trail if it wasn't for all the great information that others have posted in the past.
I think the most valuable assets a person can have out on a ride like the colorado trail is just personal experience and determination, which luckily neither of which is something anyone can steal from you

I like your coordinates better with what I am recalling in my mind for the guide book's notes.

I guess come July I might have to ride the Monarch Crest trail to sfigure it out once and for all, twist my arm, what a horrible thing to do!

share the wealth once you figure it out

FYI all my rambling should be taken with a grain of salt and lots of tequila. Shits and giggles my fellow riders.

I think the original question is a great one.  I often wonder what is the most self reliant any one person has been out there.  it certainly should not be enforced that every rider ride a certain way, but we can wonder how "pure" is the "purist" anyone has every ridden the route.  I tend to think the fastest finish times are associated with the people who did it with the least unnecessary amenities (who needs a bed if you don't sleep).  This is for 2 reasons.  Those luxuries usually come at a cost of time penalty.  Also, the longer the ride, the more difficult it is to go without all those things we take for granted in our daily lives.  the fastest guy will be at a hotel after finishing in 2 weeks whereas some people will only be halfway done by then.

technically, wouldn't mailing stuff to yourself be "pre-planned support" which would be against the code of the purist form of bikepacking, right?  haha.  I think you could basically interpret the rules to so great of a degree which would make it impossible to even do the ride without breaking the rules as interpreted.  Good thing we don't have UCI out there enforcing rules. LOL
I donno that carrying extra stuff makes you a softie. I choose a more minimalist approach to bikepacking not because I am tough, but because I am too much of a softie to carry all the weight.

I mean in the sense of "SELF SUPPORTED", which to me means NOT taking unnecessary assistance or advantage, i.e. hotels or someone to cook and clean dishes for you. Who really wants to eat crap for 2800 miles? This is a personal challenge not a sponsored race even though people are being sponsored. The challenge isn't the speed its the endurance of all that the trail unveils. Are us TDR racers bike packing the TDR or hotel hopping the TDR? How do you determine the quality of your TDR? IDK I'm not arguing but just trying to add some food for thought. Maybe Im an idiot but after years of being an Eagle scout, hotels are for wimps. I feel the rules should be changed to "If you don't mail it to yourself, carry it on your bike, or buy it on the actual trail, it should be taboo(sans bike repair). I just seems so cushy as it is now.

did eagle scouts camp out for 25+ days straight with no shower while working up a sweat all day every day? I'm pretty sure if they did, then they would have no quarrel with someone wanting to get a room and take a shower at some point to get 2-3 weeks worth of grime off of their skin.
I've never ridden the divide as I have one of those jobs that I can't get away from for 4 weeks at a time, but IMHO, there are some great people who are out there trying to have the experience of their lifetime.  and for some people, the experience of a lifetime involves them having a warm place to sleep every few days and picking up a warm meal as they roll through town.  Why would you want to make these people feel bad about making the best of their adventure.  Remember all the sacrifices that all these individuals (and their loved ones) have made in order to be out there living THEIR dream.... so don't try to make them feel bad about it when they do it.
also note that the people who are indulging in the luxuries are not the people contending for titles or speed records or anything of the sort.  They are just great people having fun doing what they love.
With that said, those people are riding the ride they have sacrificed so much to be able to ride, and so can you.  you can ride the ride in whatever fashion you want to ride it.  if you feel the need to carry 4 weeks worth of food from the start to stay pure and camp along side a dirt road every night, than by all means you should do that(I don't suggest carrying that much weight though).  Don't worry about what other people are doing. You will actually be faster without getting hotel because a hotel night usually means a 10 hour night.
Have fun out there everyone.  I'll be watching the colored dots.