I will be touring south to the start and am looking for somewhere in Tucson to leave a small bag of extra kit, so I can give the Lemmon Drop a try, around Oct 12-13
thanks

your welcome to drop by my place on the west side near downtown.

Pretty sure the structure is leftover from Border wall construction, it would be a huge spot if they cleared it out. There's also a clearing .2 up the Ida cyn road FS 771 also called Oversite cyn on the old map. Hopefully Border activity will have moved on to some other area.

Last year the driver told them the van wouldn't make it to the border, coming from Parker he drove them past 103 Mesa to the top of Copper Cyn. So they sat in the van longer and got to ride a slightly tougher route to the start.

Looking at the map I can see where the change back to a split shuttle sending them to Parker first, and I is hard to see that the purple line continues past the red. In the dark for a driver who's never been there, didn't know how much better FS 4726 is then the Copper Cyn rd.

Not seeing anything at the link assume the plan is to get dropped the night before as in past years.

The border was hoping this spring, did not make for a good nights sleep down there, hopefully things have calmed down for that area.

Last fall the grass was too tall to safely park anywhere except right at the border, anybody planning to camp out the night before?

Tim

Once again the fine folks at Homegrown Shuttles will be offering their services to help get riders to the start from either Picketpost trailhead or Tucson. Sign-up for a shuttle here:

*Registration for the AZTR has not opened yet and having a shuttle reservation does not guarantee a spot in the Grand Depart.

https://homegrownmtb.com/event/arizona-trail-300-800-race-shuttle/]https://homegrownmtb.com/event/arizona-trail-300-800-race-shuttle/[/url]

Somebody should print John's shuttle directions map and give it to the driver, there's no reason the van can't get you all the way to the border fence if that's where you want to go. On the other hand if they go thru Sierra Vista you might be sick of the van and want to get on the bikes at Montezuma Pass.

Thanks for the comments! It actually has turn by turn dialed into whatever route I load on it, so it?ll use the same file the Etrex would be using I believe. And I can just follow the arrow on its map if I need to as well. It?ll tell me I?m off course, and it?ll be mounted to my bars with a nifty Garmin adapter used for such a use.

Any other thoughts on possible drawbacks? So far its seeming like it?ll work.


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OK so bar mounted, and you have used it enough to feel comfortable with following a track. Assuming your a rookie from out of state, I would also say you could study the course, print the cues and study the course on a full sized screen, print a map with the right scale to sow overall landmarks and main gravel roads. If you know that Canelo Pass road will lead you to Sonoita, you won't have to spend hours following the track, if things go wrong you should be able to navigate back to civilization.

"Turn by Turn" seems to be a really bad idea for mtn bike backpacking, where you are going through mazes of trails at trail centres and every un-mapped naturally occurring game trail or cow trail, or social trail looks identical to the trail you should be on, especially if they already have tire tracks on them.

Even zooming all the way in won't save you from some of these, the trail is getting better and better with use and signage, if you end up on a cow trail north of Oracle the key thing is having a track to see what direction to head to find the trail.

It seems pretty easy to me, to follow a gpx. line displayed on a device. Just keep your "you are here" arrow on your coloured line, and the racers that have got badly lost (such as Tour Dividers crossing the border into the US in the wrong place) were trying to navigate by "Turn by Turn"

Sounds like he'll have that just on a smaller screen.

I didn't know how the TD rider got so far off course, obviously it's best to keep an eye on the track as well. Now if someone finds their way back south to the International border and can't tell what side they're supposed to be on then we have real problems.

Haven't used a watch before, my immediate thoughts is that having to take a hand off the bars to check the route would be kinda annoying. Not an issue in a lot of cases I am sure, but I always tend to check my position on the track especially when going downhill just to make sure I am not off track and needing to go back up if I made a mistake. Fairly easy to glance at the bar mounted unit to double check myself. taking a hand off the bars to do that would be less than ideal for me.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/641375
It's an interesting gadget had to scroll all the way to the bottom to see that it has turn by trun navigation.

Speaking of navigation, I?m thinking of doing my first AZT300 attempt navigating from my Garmin Fenix 6x solar watch. I?ve used it for other bikepacking trips. Any thoughts out there?
 

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Does it have a way to warn you if you get off track, I see it has a turn by turn and I have heard of people using apps with TbT. Having the unit on your bars where you can always see it is of course better.

I would be great if the RD could get the same level of hero worship, can do no wrong, admiration that is given to the riders. 

Eventually found El Plier. Between trackleaders mytopo, google terrain, and topofusion it finally has a coordinate. Thanks for that one.

I actually meant to post a better link and then I got side tracked. Here's another shot from the trail https://scontent.fphx1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275583199_3048542578728554_5066957991823398395_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=174925&_nc_ohc=K5Ak1xwAuIIAX8v6uE8&_nc_ht=scontent.fphx1-2.fna&oh=00_AT-h3e2HuIOVw2qILdhIsckC-zb9AtcAGj5ykR_XTyfy3A&oe=62BE5B58

It's about .1 mile off trail to the water hole, mostly a flat meadow about 100 feet on a steeper cow trail. Not sure it will be a water source that everyone will bother with but it looked pretty good so hopefully dependable.

where is El Pilar?

South of the Flume trail once the new reroute is done.

AH and Slowpoke rode it this spring, John had posted the track but then pulled it a couple of days later, you have to lift your bike over a locked gate at one point and upper Hog canyon road has sand deep enough to suck riding down. http://trackleaders.com/aztrspring22i.php?name=Olivia_Flaversham_Reload she goes off course after the flume El Pilar Tank shows up in the mytopo layer.

The Cholla's likely broke loose in a high wind event, they can't really jump, the local club gives out combs https://vimeo.com/100524985

Fully Schillinged, Schillified for your hike a bike pleasure, and there's more single track to come in the Temporal Gulch reroute. If you look at AH and Slowpoke's southbound 300 runs you can see they went up Hog canyon and picked up some of the new stuff. There's a sweet water source at the El Pilar. https://scontent.fphx1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/275561729_3048541052062040_2486703640525308203_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=VlQE1PUexQEAX_8wQEA&_nc_ht=scontent.fphx1-1.fna&oh=00_AT8aZEN1E9n9roe4gsxSH4RHsxrmvFu3sVgnLn0tWUfwVQ&oe=62BB994D

I've seen metric on topo maps before never really thought about it much, the I 19 from Tucson south is signed in metric, like some kind of warm up before going in to Mexico.

Happy planning and bounce that dot.

Tim

Greetings and salutations, heralding the return of the international field to the AZT 800.

More northern riders have wanted a fall run, at the end of their summer training season, forever, once it came so did the monsoons to cause grasses to overrun the trail. It will be interesting to see how the summer plays out and what affect either way it will have on the fall run.

You shouldn't have to worry about the ranger on the north rim as you'll hopefully be on trail.

Lots of changes in the last two years lots of stuff that hasn't as well.

Looking forward to watching the DW blue dot.

Hey Scott juts playing internet tough guy keyboard worrier, it's not for me to say. I would have thought not dying would trump all other rules, I talked with Doc about ruptured spleen's he said it's real easy to miss, no one should die and DNF themselves from life for the race.

I strongly agree with all these. They naturally extend to sleeping in kids playgrounds, shop entrances, train stations, bus shelters, etc. All these places are not meant for sleeping, encounters are awkward, and the footprint of the event is in people's faces. My guess is that if it's clearly mentioned on the website that the impact of the event on the local communities must be minimized to preserve the event, people will approach it differently (I hope so at least). Illustrating the problem with examples mentioned above would go a long way too - imo. The severity of this phenomenon goes way past the issue of emotional support from my perspective. It's existential for the event and a matter of reputation for the bikepacking community. I was long wondering (first when reading about TCR over here in Europe) if sleeping all over the city parks, benches, etc. is a good idea.

Well stated, it's unfortunate that this would have to be made a rule but here we are.

Agree, I also think that this is very important as it is a serious part of the event's footprint. Regarding this, what's the take on pre-stocking the water caches before your ride? It's not a great way to do an FKT from the fairness point, but technically it'd be OK if you were both a water fairy and the FKT rider. Then you could drink a lot . Not Lael's case I assume, just wondering for the sake of it.

Scott banned people from caching from the start of the event, that's always been a rule. However as the event grew someone has pre stocked and sometimes re stocked the Freeman rd Cache. And that's the only one you need. Hikers end up using way more nasty water sources then riders, the first cache she comes to is only 4 miles from a spigot and less then 14 past a flowing year round creek there's no reason for racers to take any water there. Also a lot of these boxes only went in in the last 5 years or so, we got by without them for years and no one had to have a 911 water drop. In the Outside article she claims to have been out of water for 5 hours when she met John out side of Picket Post, it's only 11 miles from the Gila River to PP and there's a rain water collector just off the trail about 7 miles from PP. After Picket Post it's a long run to Queen Valley and out of the way to go to the Arboretum or the town of Superior, but there's no reason anyone should have gone 5 hours without water.

And Welcome to Bikepacking.net I'm Tim, I'v been around here since the beginning. Being in the right place at the right time I got to be one of the first people to ride the whole AZT. The AZT is an amazing journey I hope you get to experience it someday. 

I would agree with that.  Don't forget the media company, who stirred up the internet mob in the first place.   I think they were both were aware of the rules and acted intentionally both in breaking them and how they responded after the * was applied.  I can't tell if Lael is just clueless or manipulative, or if she just doesn't give a shit.  Or maybe a combination of all three.  There certainly doesn't seem to be a lot of respect for the race or the bikepack racing community - or her fanbase for that matter, judging by the way they are being manipulated.  You can tell by what was said both before and after, and perhaps more importantly by what wasn't said.  There are a whole lot of things they could have clarified to Lael's fan base that would have quelled the outrage, but they chose not to.  The most amusing part is not pointing out to the fanbase that they are fawning over a FKT set in an event that is only a year old that only has 15 documented finishers so far.  That's not to say it wasn't an impressive ride - it definitely was.  But if you compare it to past ATZR750 results you can tell this FKT isn't going to stand for very long, asterisk or not.  I suspect there are going to be some very motivated racers lining up this fall.    

It's pretty obvious that the journalistic integrity rant is all part of the show. The Mob insist that pro's have to be exempt from the media rule as it's how they make their money. The mob will soon move on, they know they need to cash in while they can it can all come to and end real quick.

Mr Journalistic integrity can't quite get that you don't send the spouse of the racer to cover the story, and then has the nerve to call out someone whose not pimping for Social Media, for leaving money on the table by not having a IG following.  

The actual FKT for the AZTR is 6.6.6 if they want to say google takes you to the old site then the course is the 750 and the record is 666.

By this fall the Catalina Wilderness bypass aka Lemmon Drop trails should be an option. For those that followed this springs ITT on Trackleaders.com, two people did SOBO 300's and skipped the highway completely. That could be enough right there to say the 300 riders all now need use the trails no more highway. Scott and I always agreed that if anyone skipped the highway and finished in the event then the course has to change.

It was obvious Nate's record wasn't going to last the current 800 isn't that much different then the Four Peaks option from 19 and JD finished that in 8 days as I recall http://trackleaders.com/aztr19i.php?name=Justin_Dubois

It was nice that Lael was able to jump in and get the overall record.

Given Lael arrived late and left around 2am no one was likely to find her there in this case.  But a lot of eyes saw her "reportage" and might now think sleeping overnight in a PO lobby is a good idea.  Sadly a lot of people don't have the social awareness to realize they should be gone without a trace before anyone would show up in the morning.  It's only a matter of time before someone leaves a bunch of trash, or worse.  You only need to look at the Oregon Outback to see the worst case scenario.  https://www.bicycling.com/rides/a20022950/popular-bikepacking-event-killed-by-bad-behavior/.

Seems to me if we are concerned about protecting and minimizing the impact of the race this would be something that should be discouraged if not banned.  Not only does it seem like a bad idea, but may be illegal.  A google search "sleeping in post office lobby" pulled up Rules & Regs Re Conduct on USPS Property:  https://about.usps.com/posters/pos7.pdf .  Look at the "Disturbances" section, quoted below.   Seems directly applicable to sleeping in a lobby.   I know a bunch of post office lobbies around here (SoCal) are locked overnight now due to homeless sleeping in them.     

I don't think it matters what time it was, if you drove all night to get to your cabin and wanted to hit the PO knowing it's always open, and there's someone sleeping blocking the door. I know it's a stretch and no one showed up obviously. But by the link you posted it's a breach of a Federal regulation the same as riding a closed section of trail. And that's not just an * it's a DQ.

Fair points to bring up and when you have that many eyes on you, your example matters.

And that it was the first and only plan, you were able to get a room to sleep in up there in 06 right? She could have said I'll get up there and see what it's like, try to get a room, if all else fails then there's always the safety net of the PO. She said that at a Windy Point and then continued knowing it would be too cold to sleep out, and the PO is nice and cozy. And lets steal some juice while we're here, also felt staged.

Telling her story gets her the DQ no time recorded moved to the bottom of the results for the race that she signed up for. DQ'd with the * don't sleep in the PO and brag about it on line. 

The days of the RD being a nice guy ended with the Outback bs Evdog linked. In the years between Scott's mr nice guy rules and JOHN's RULE's a lot of BS went down, guys having at the cashes and still having to take water from hikers, and then blogging it for all the world, then we had someone drinking water with a clear save for a set person's name, clearly not public water taken hiker ends up calling 911, and I got an ear full from a trail angel at the State Line, we don't put that water out there for you racers!.

I have and will continue to support John as he has to make the tough calls.

And now Outside Online has an article.
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/biking/lael-wilcox-bikepacking-fkt-controversy-arizona-trail/

A fairly balanced reporting of the whole fiasco, wondering if John finally had a chance to make a little coin after all of the BS, do these mags pay people for interviews?

Making money off of bikepacking is one thing, but I might think some of the volunteers who built the trail might take issue with the idea of a for profit high speed run, and the trail angels who place water don't put it out there for people who have a friend meeting them at the same spot with a car. 

So do racers take over the Summerhaven Post Office as a normal thing? I have heard of people sleeping in the PO in Oracle but that's big enough to just take a corner. I was enjoying the video and getting past the idea that they were obviously driving to every trail head. Is this really the story the AZT bikepacking racers should be putting out. Too cheap to get a room in town, unwilling to carry warm enough gear to sleep out, you just take over a tiny towns PO?

My 2 shillingsworth

That does sound like a pretty exciting event to follow. A fast cyclist, but slower runner, vs a slower cyclist who's a faster runner.

I really like racing/events where there are lead changes.

The person who would be interested in this style of fkt would likely have to already excel at both running and riding technical trail. And once you decide for whatever reason to have a chase rig there's no point in carrying a full bikepacking kit so you should be able to travel faster.

John
Sorry you had to play the villain, hopefully the vid will be great maybe fully supported will be the next big thing in thru biking. Someone could easily get fkt for multi sport trail run/bike the full AZT with support, run the wilderness bike when legal, AFAIK it's never been done so all you have to do is be first to set the record.