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1  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: Tour Divide race discussion on: July 02, 2014, 11:11:45 PM
But I am having a good time and hoping for redemption in the form of riding entire course under my own power, even if quite lacking in style points.

Exactly.  You know what you have done out there, we know what you have done out there,  Anyone who has ridden a bike on the route knows the difference between really riding it and the weird set of rules which have evolved.  Continue on and if you are deprived of the podium girls and massive endorsements and glory which come from strict compliance with the concept of what is "available to the public" or "the proper direction to hitchhike" so be it.

Everytime I ride the route I find public assistance beyond the rules is available to everyone. Human kindness and practical solutions are not always acceptable in the current rulebook.  I suppose the powers that be need to draw lines somewhere, but in the end, it is your own ride which matters.
2  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: Tour Divide race discussion on: July 02, 2014, 07:03:56 AM
Take this with a grain of salt because it's from a race non-completer. But I must say that the new route from Basin to Butte is very nice. The scenery is gorgeous. The hill climbing up to the continental divide crossing is pretty gradual. And the downhill on the other side is fun. It beats riding on the interstate.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iyXrTvW-9Ev5PBdRTN2N41C_QHs1clo-ZkFdDBZfja0/pubhtml#


Glad you liked it.  It sounds as though it was a bit muddy on the descent for some riders.   When we mapped it out in august 2010 it was hard as a rock, and it seems to me gravel until the pass, then some natural dirt roads near the top.  Very typical of the rest of the route.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the wonderful metal sculpture park on the way into town.





3  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TOUR DIVIDE 2014 on: May 10, 2014, 11:13:38 PM
The rules are what they are. But I prefer any dirt track over pavement especially interstate. If anyone later in the summer on a ITT will be running the new section I think a modification similar to the Gold-dust trail should be weighed for the GD.

I vote for a the new section...

I mapped and rode the Butte variation a couple of years ago, and proposed it to Mack McCoy and ACA.  They were working on something similar, so we exchanged photos and tracks, and now it is official, and will be in the future maps, whenever they come out.

As far as the race goes, I can tell you it is a bit slower, but it is typical great divide, mostly fast empty gravel in gorgeous country.  Water is available.  It is not a big climb and won't hold snow as long as many sections nearby.

It avoids riding the interstate and has a terrific approach into Butte though the historic district.  If you are super competitive and it is not required, ride the highway, but if you can spare a bit of time, you will really like that Butte alternative.
4  Forums / Routes / New Great Divide guidebook on: November 13, 2013, 06:53:59 AM
Michael McCoy, who laid out the route, has updated his book, "Cycling The Great Divide".  The guide now includes Canada, and various route changes, such as a new segment avoiding the interstate into Butte.  It is a great resource for anyone planning on riding the route. Available here:

http://www.amazon.com/Cycling-Great-Divide-Michael-McCoy/dp/1594858195/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384354367&sr=8-1&keywords=cycling+great+divide
5  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 30, 2013, 10:04:17 AM
Thanks for posting all of the pictures, Russ! Much appreciated.

I want to second that!  It is nice to see everyone with a smile.

Anyone wondering about gear need only go through your photos to get a good idea what people ride and how they pack.
6  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 29, 2013, 06:09:15 AM
you might call Gila Bike and Sport with that offer.  575-388-3222.

They found a friend who shuttled us down there for $100 last year.
7  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 28, 2013, 04:44:35 PM
In 2012 there were no open businesses in Hachita and no public sources of water that I could find. Separ was the last source of water.
Are there any open businesses in Hachita?  I don't recall any but I haven't been there in a few years.  I am curious as to water sources on the last leg.  There are tanks but that is off the course.  BP guys are always quick to offer some and there are plenty of them in the area but not something one would want to count on.

I saw nothing open last year though people do live there so I guess you could knock on a door.  A missionary group shared the picnic tables at the park and topped us off.

The border patrol was everywhere......they stopped by our campsites.  it will be interesting to see what the new bill whoch just passed the Senate does.  One provision is doubling the border patrol, something like 20,000 more agents.
8  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 28, 2013, 12:24:07 PM
I have just had an Australian refuse a free Beer.

Wonder if he will be stipped of his Citizenship?



Perhaps he didn't understand.  In official 'strailn it would be called a pint'o piss.
9  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 28, 2013, 12:04:02 PM
New TDR signs - good or bad idea?

Any opinions you get here are just that.  The trail is mapped out by the Adventure Cycling Association.  They in turn, have no say in where a sign can go, that would be up to the government bodies and private landowners along the way.

The reason the route has very few signs is not to keep the route a mystery, it is because it is not an officially recognized trail.  Nice signs such as you describe might be welcomed by most users of the route, though approval would be a bureaucratically difficult.  If someone put out a bunch of paper signs or surveyor tape for the race I'm sure the forest service, BLM etc would not be happy, and staying on route is indeed part of the race.

GPS has made signs and maps far less needed.  I'm amazed people still get off route, though there might be a foggy brain or two out there!
10  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 27, 2013, 03:43:26 PM
You can't tell me yourself? Wink

Do a little research into events like the TD, CTR, AZT, etc. and you'll find that people enjoy the challenges of supporting themselves. Yes, I take this more literally than some because I think that it's good for the development of the sport. But aid stations on the TD?

Yep, I've been on all of those, and the Kokopelli, and the TCT, and 5000 km of pilgrimage trails in Europe.  If you want to race them, fine, I understand, I was a bike racer in my younger years.

I am not advocating aid stations for the TD.  I am encouraging people to aid riders on the GDMTB route, a route upon which you are sharing with others while playing out your, excuse me, great big life altering game.

I was on the GDMBR long before this race existed....I gave money to map it, and still belong to and contribute to the ACA.  I like seeing the trail We all helped create become more connected to the local people.  When you discourage people from offering aid to people on the trail because your race is sooo important you have been blinded by your own self aggrandizement.   If you want to ride it in a certain style, it is 100% your responsibility. Don't whine about trail angels, they are just doing what good people do.
11  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 27, 2013, 01:20:52 PM
Of course, the race is its own little esoteric world.  Try to hold it without impacting the trail.  Telling people not to be a trail angel is a negative impact.  
12  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 27, 2013, 12:11:47 PM
]
That place is on the maps
The problem is, it's not really part of the trail, it's a product of the race and the higher profile of live tracking. It's 'situational angeling' not likely to benefit a late season ITT or the tourists who can really probably use the mental lift more than racers. You're right that riders need to interpret this level of purity on their own, but we'd still like to minimize the temptation to accept targeted aid and stop too often for such distractions. "Alone" is part of the challenge. We'd really like to see riders travel mostly unsupported between the towns with the exception of water resupply.


You misunderstood me, or I didn't make it clear enough......On many trails, all over the world, people put things out for the riders year round.  Not just for your race.  Your race is not bigger than the trail. You are just riders on our public land, just like anyone else out there.

I think we should encourage the locals to know about the trail, and putting a case of Costco water bottles out is the way some respond.  If they only put it out at busy times, such as when you run your herd down the route, well, too bad, but it is a free world and the residents can do as they wish.  Tell your racers they are something special and they must pass it by.  Tell Toby Gadd to hold hid breath.  There are other people on that route who might appreciate the gesture.  Don't go and try to minimize those gestures to suit what you see as tempting the participants in your little game. 

PS the spot south of Whitefish isn't on my ACA maps.  I don't buy a new set every year.
13  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 27, 2013, 07:17:46 AM
I will suggest that next year he puts up a sign and possibly maintain a water source to tell TDR riders that they are welcome to camp on his land.

I think this is the sort of thing the event should encourage, as part of the trail evolution.  I've seen it many places----a house on the Trans-Canada which kept a cooler full of water bottles stocked, another with extra fruit and veggies, with signs to take what you need.  Along the Camino Santiago in France a family built a picnic shelter with water for the trail users.  There is a sign south of Whitefish telling GDR riders to camp and stop by.

The race should not discourage this sort of development if it is part of the trail.  ACA can't be expected to keep track of them for them to be legitimate.  If a racer feels that violates his "purity", he can ride right on by.
14  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 27, 2013, 05:55:46 AM
Don't underestimate what a trail angel might do for a fellow cyclist. When I lived in Fernie i would frequently spot a rider and feed them and put them up for the night.  One time I found a guy with a trashed rear wheel, and we rebuilt it with a nice rhyno rim I had ( I bought a pair just to get the heavy rear wheel so the front was not used).
Heck, when we lived in Singapore we put up a round the world rider for a week and rebuilt the whole bike.

If someone did that for a racer, people would consider it unfair advantage, but in a real life trip, help is out there.

How to restrict it to it random kindness in the smartphone age is tough though......if I saw a post here of someone needing help on a tour I might drive out to help, but obviously we can't do that in the race, or pretty soon there will be a shimano jeep out there fixing bikes.
15  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 26, 2013, 06:52:51 AM

If you want to be literal about it, though, no one has ridden the exact same route during any year of the Tour Divide. In 2008 they rode the Fernie route through Canada. In 2009

I used to live in Fernie and was always embarassed that one of the worst segments went past my door.  The Flathead is a real improvement.

There is a wonderful alternative now to the section of interstate into Butte, and Mike McCoy may put it into the next revision.  The course record is a nice concept, but the route needs to evolve, and floods, fires, avalanches, logging, new trails will always be a factor.  We need to accept that, and not put standardization of the course above the route itself, which is a continuously evolving work of art.
16  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 25, 2013, 07:22:52 AM
For perspective, the route was originally mapped by Mike McCoy.  He wrote a very nice guidebook for riding the route, reasonable days with good campsites.  
Some riders go faster than his recommended stages, many go slower.  His time frame?  62 Days.
17  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 24, 2013, 10:21:58 PM
Quote from: IV Guy link=topic=5787.msg49439#msg49439 date=1372136758. [/quote

What do you think is going on in locker rooms at half-time and after the game is over on both sides of the field in the NFL?  Just about every boxer/MMA fighter that stands in the ring/octagon respectively a day or two after weigh-ins, is much heavier than their weight while standing on the scale; this in not done by drinking water alone and sitting on the couch; there is not enough time for this to happen.  Fluid straight into the vein is instant hydration whereas drinking water,

Thats just wonderfull.  Please stick to your NFL locker room and your phony weight class boxers.  Here we celebrate what a human can do simply eating, drinking, and riding a bike.  

PS I am also an EMT, and consider you a disgrace.
18  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 24, 2013, 12:41:35 PM
  I see the IV scandal as ruinous to the race....The sponsors are going abandon it, the prize list will plunge, the podium girls will stop flocking around the riders--- the event may even get dropped from the Olympics.......ummm oh that's right, we never had any of that.

Still, it is an awful smear to an event which has been joyously pure.  Why, other than shear ignorance of hydration would someone get IV fluids before going to the airport?  What do you do when you gotta' go and the fasten seatbelt light comes one?

I'd be more worked up about someone getting an IV during the race, but IV fluids before it just serves to poke holes in your veins and lump a good race in with all the dirty ones. That facebook page is something else.
19  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 24, 2013, 11:24:10 AM
Looks like Mike hit the subway and now is probably eating some more at the cafe, wonder if his waiting for a call or what.  Hoping to see him move southwesterly shortly!!!!

Let's get back to important stuff..  His spot is near the organic peddler....a shame if he can't cram down a burrito.  They have fueled many a GD rider.
20  Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: TD`13 Race Discussion on: June 23, 2013, 03:47:24 PM
Much agree with your point of view on this.  Although I will never be a competitor in an event like this... I would absolutely love to tour some of the finer sections of the Continental Divide.  As an established member of the Old and Slow  Mountain Bikers Club, 40 or 50 miles a day with a stop and smell the flowers pace would be my idea of Nirvana, supported, of course.

I would encourage you to do so, trailerdude.  And any other the lurkers here.

My wife and I do a piece of it nearly every year.  If we go over 60 miles a day we dial it back so the distance is something under our age.  We carry our gear but stay every nice place we can find, and there are many of them.  It adds a lot to blue dot watching....."ah yes, he just did in five hours what took us two days, but remember that nice bison steak we had with a fine Cote de Rhone at the lodge.  Looks like he stopped there for some power bars."

I am amazed by everyone out there.  100 miles a day will put you in 78th place right now.  Having ridden it,  I know how tough that is.
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