I agree with you @Bon. I want to do the race if the right conditions are in place, if not, I rather do something else this year. I already shifted my plans to this week to do the CTR. It looks like that's on for now, and it's a race I always wanted to do as well. I hope this one doesn't cancel. If it does, I'll look for another one (there's a new gravel race across Colorado this year), and another one, etc

@vmikee, thank you for the update! Not what I wanted to hear, but it's what I expected The Northbound option is interesting. We'll just have to wait and see.

I think if this year we don't have a Grand Depart from Banff, in 2022 we'll have the biggest Grand Depart ever That would be a lot of fun!

It's probably too soon, but I was wondering if anyone heard about any (un)official word/chatter about the likelihood of the race starting in Banff on June 11th? Or about alternative plans?

Yeah, it's a solid time with a big 2 day gap from Brian's record to next racer. 2nd fastest is Rob Orr's 18:07:41 in 2015 (also over 60 record) and 3rd fastest is Rob Davidson 18:10:53 in 2017.

Thank you for the info. All very impressive times for 50+, and even more for 60+!

David Chirnside posted the Men's Master records in the Tour Divide Facebook group:

Over 50 record is Brian Alder in 16:10:35 (2016). Fastest over 50 finish was Greg Gleason Gleason in 2018 in 16:02:53 but in 2018 and had mandatory material detours, so no record.
Over 60 is Robert Orr 2015, 18:07:41.
Over 70 is Hal Russell from 2019 in 28:01:46.

So based on that, looks like I would be targeting under 24.6 days to be considered competitive in the Master's over 50 grouping.

I saw that (the 50+ record of 16 days) and I wonder if that's a "Mike Hall-type" of record, meaning it's pretty far apart from 2nd, 3rd, etc, or if the top 3-5 50+ times are close to 16 days.

Yesss! I was hoping this would pop up soon. I'm in the middle of a whole lot of uncertainty right now but I'm committed to do this next year. Looking forward to this, including the race preparation discussion.

The Sparwood is a long wearing tire—“harder” durometer materials than some of the others you’d consider, like the Vittoria Mezcal.  It’s a bit less forgiving on wet rock surfaces and loose dirt/gravel but super fast on road or hard packed dirt.  The “harder” casing may repel thorns and other potential hazards better than other options.  If you go with a dramatically wider or narrower rim than recommended, you’ll open yourself up to a range of issues, including sidewall exposure, sub-optimal tire profile variance, and potentially, blowing the tire off the rim when you least expect it. If you like the stability a 30mm rim offered you, you’ll probably enjoy the feel of an appropriately wide(r) tire profile.  Maybe experiment with a 30mm up front with a 2.4 tire of your choice and a 24 in the back with a 2.2 Sparwood.  Good luck on the ride!

I noticed that now these tires are 60 tpi. The pair I had was 120 tpi. I remember that version felt hard compared to other 120 tpi tires. I didn't think the 2.2 Sparwood offered too much stability on a 30mm rim. The thinking for me was that a slightly wider rim would give a bit more contact patch and help with traction. Maybe they would have perform even better on a 24mm rim.

Using a wider rim/tire on the front than in the back is a good idea. Will explore that at some point. For now, unfortunately, I have to change my plans and postpone this race one more year. Consolation is that I'll be doing the CTR instead (first time), which is much less time and cost (I live close to Denver).

Got mine yesterday. Perfect motivation to resume my training preparation for 2020. I want to read about me in vol 12 

Anyone running/planning to run Teravails Sparwood? If so, what internal rim width are you going with? I used them in my first attempt 3 years ago and mounted them on 30mm rims. They felt great during my 1,300 mi stint - fast rolling and good traction with the loaded bike. Now I need a new wheelset (I sold that when I switched to a boost frame) and when I checked the Teravail site they now say the ideal rim width for this tire is 24mm (this info wasn't there 3 years ago). Not sure if they changed something on the tire in these three years (I think they weren't available for a year or so). Any insights or recommendations?

Thanks!

The one lauf fork I saw in the CTR last year started developing some cracks in the carbon fins around the end of Sargents Mesa. This dude loved lauf forks, and didn't want to speak ill of them. He did finish the CTR and I don't believe it disintegrated. 

Thank you for the info. Interesting. My original Lauf has 3+ years and 3,000+ miles and zero issues. The new one I got is Boost spacing and has the stiffer carbon leafs. I can't imagine how could I brake it. Maybe (hopefully) that one was a bad one. In any case, I did some long rides on ST and I'm leaning towards using my FS (a Niner RKT), if I can figure out the storage setup.

The comment of making Silverton before close comes up every odd year.
To put things into perspective...

The race (usually) starts in Durango at 4:00am. To make 9:00pm you'd have to be under 17 hours to Silverton.
If you look at the Molas Lake splits (which puts you 6 or so very fast downhill miles from town)
2013: 15 people made Molas Lake under 17 hours
2015: 14 people made Molas Lake under 17 hours
2017: 3 people made Molas Lake under 17 hours

Generally speaking those who make it to Silverton before closing on day 1 tend to be in the ~5d15h or less category (2017 tough to compare with the tough weather). Many mid packers will get through town in the middle of the night. Many will not. Many of the rest will be able to hit Silverton for breakfast on day two.

Learn your reup's and either take enough to get to Mt. Princeton/Buena Vista or resupply in Silverton on what becomes many people's day 2.

Just a little food for thought for those stressing not making Silverton on Day 1.

So much good riding is right!

All this nerding on a rainy evening has me thinking... hmm 2019.. yeah right!

Thank you for the good info! I was looking at the Trackleaders to try to figure this out after @THE LONG RANGER comment.

Yes, I need to start studying the route. I already order the databook.

Rollins Pass is good fun

The crux starting from Durango seems to be trying to get to Silverton before the town essentially closes at 9pm (grocery may close even earlier than that). The riding out from Durango to the top of Molas Pass is excellent, but the mandatory hike a bike starts at the top of the first climb - which itself is a doozy.

So much good riding!

Yes, I was looking at an elevation graph I found for that section and it looks like ~4,000 ft of climbing in about 8 miles!

From Waterton, the course generally starts buffer and easier, then gets harder on your way to Durango (I can't remember which way it's going next year!). It's fairly "smooth" riding from Waterton to Kenosha, but then gets a little chunkier. Perhaps a good taste would be from Kenosha to Georgia, then finishing at Highway 9? I remember being pretty tired up Gold Hill, and that's when I started to HAB in earnest. Still hard to get a feeling for how the terrain will be handled by your body after day 3, you know?

Thanks. Next year the race goes Durango to Denver. I'll take a look at those sections as soon as I get my databook and map. This might have to wait to next Spring/early summer anyway. I have to get up my fitness level before attempting that. Last week I did the Indian Peaks Traverse (Boulder to Rollins pass and back to Boulder through roads) and I was dead tired after that.

As far as bike choice, after trying the IPT both on the HT and FS, I'm pretty sure I'll be using the FS.

Sleep system: another personal preference, but I went with a very UL bivy, a sleeping bag liner, and a UL pad. It was very cold, but very light! I still don't know if I'd go with a sleeping bag, but I would check out some of those Patagonia puffy pants. It's part of their fly fishing collection

If I'd do the CTR again, it would be for a legit. race, going as fast as possible. With that sort of terrain, every ounce counts. Getting between resupplies before the stores close can be a huge part of a successful strategy. Bring your best form to the race!

I'm approaching this race as a race (vs just to finish it), so I'm planning to give it my best from now. I don't want any excuses/regrets as I have with the TD. I did approached that as a race but I was under prepared in all aspects.

Personal preference for sure, but I would NOT personally go for a fully rigid bike. It's just too much for those poor hands and wrists. Unless of course you've got a well-dialed in 29+. Don't have an opinion on Lauf forks (never used one!), but I would probably suggest a conventional telescopic sus. fork for sure. I've never ridden a FS as a bikepacking rig, but this, and the AZTR seem like obvious choices. Just leave with a perfectly tuned sus. that's been very very recently maintained. I'd hate for someone to scratch b/c squish problems. (I blew a seal after Sargents Mesa en route to Durango - it was a nightmare).

Gearing. Good question. I did it on a 1x10, something like 32 up front and 11-36 up back, so fairly tall... I would have appreciated a little more on a low end for sure. There's some legit. terrain on the CTR. Lots of fun tech. stuff you may find yourself too tired to clear cleanly, but there's also a lot of huge grinds up hill, as well as a lot of small ups and downs, going around small drainages. Being able to spin up something - even very slowly, is still going to be faster than walkin' it.

I would consider flat pedals, given all the hike-a-biking, unless you have a pair of shoes you love to hike in for dozens upon dozens of miles. I thought I had a great pair of very comfy shoes to hike in, but were still clipless compatible. They totally fell apart before Copper. You live you learn!

The CT right now would be perfect to be on! A little chilly in the morning, but the trees are so on fire!

This bike feels very different than a fully rigid bike, with the Lauf (60mm travel) and the plus tires. I also have a split seat tube that's supposed to deflect about 1/2". Of course, is not a FS bike eaither, but kind of in between. The Lauf took a beating on my attempt to the TD without any problems whatsoever, and I was pretty loaded on the front. I'll take this bike to a section of the course, if I can, and give it a try. Can you think of a section to do to get a "flavor" of the most technical descents? (the closer to Denver the better).

1 x 10 and 32/11-36 looks definitely tall for this course! I started the TD with 1 x 11, 34/10-42 and it killed me. I switched to a 32T in Helena and it was much better. For this course I'm thinking 1 x 11, 30T (or 28) and 10-42 should be fine, since I expect my bike to be much lighter, and me in better shape.

I can't ride flat pedals! I feel "naked" and like I'm about to fly off the bike all the time. Will include some long HAB sections in my training to test shoes.

Thank you for all the great advice (and @Adam Alphabet too!).

Personal opinion here... I think next to a unicycle the geared hardtail is the worst option for the CTR. Gears inherently mean you sit and pedal more (for most riders). The trail is rough, your ass will hurt and your bike will be inefficient bouncing off all those rocks and roots breaking traction putting you on your feet walking. If you ride gears I would think some cush in the rear with low gearing to sit and spin out those longer rough sections would be really nice.

I'm a better climber than descender, and I'm a grinder as well (vs. a masher). My starting point will be the HT with 3" tires on a wide rim (BR XR2's or WTB Ranger's). I'm using a split seat tube now for a bit of extra cushion but I might try other things w/ a bit more travel (Thud Buster) to help out on the back.

Sleep/shelter systems are very personal. [...] Try different things, gain experience with different shelter systems and you can then make a confident later minute decision based on conditions the week leading up to the event.

Noted. Good advice. I was shooting for finding THE best solution but that will be different depending on the weather nad how I progress with my training so is good to have options, and accumulate knowledge.

Most importantly though get ride fit, physically strong, mentally prepared, study the course, pre ride sections if you can, etc.. Whatever bike you choose and the gear that accompanies it if you practice with it you'll be fine. Good luck in your training and preparation! It's an incredibly challenging and rewarding bike ride with amazing like minded folks lining up at the start. You'll have a great time with memories to last.

(As an aside, I've had 3 Next SL and 1 Next R crank failure in a 3 year period. My opinion again.. They're junk, beware)

I did none of that in my attempt at the TD (I jumped on it 10 weeks before the GD) and I payed for that. This time around I'm planning to hit all the training & preparation areas you mentioned. I'm so looking forward to this even though is so far ahead

Re RF Next SL. I've heard of (and seen pics of) failures but I have 3 pairs and no probelms whatsoever (other than taking them out to change rings - a PITA). It might have to do with me being a grinder? We'll see how they do when I begin to do more race-specific training/trails.

Start by reading a few ride reports: Colorado Trail Race

I did it in 2017 on a HT 29er. That's the bike I have, so I used it. People have done it on all kinds of setups, but it seems FS is the preferred method. I don't know much about Lauf forks, but aren't they mostly preferred to smooth out washboard fire roads? The CTR is pretty brutal in general. I could've used a bit more squish up front, but I managed.

Tent v Bivy. It's all about personal preference here. Nights will get chilly, probably wet at some point. (Or all points like 2017!!) How much sleeping do you plan to do? Comfort? Weight? There's no right or wrong answer here.

First & foremost: Make sure you have comfortable & durable shoes!!

Thank you for the pointer. I had been to the CTR page but missed the thread list. I found that the 2017 Preparation thread has a TON of very useful info, and the discussion about the course is more relevant than the 2018 thread b/c of the S-N direction in 2019.

You're right on the sweetspot of the Lauf. However, I've had luck/been comfortable pushing it beyond its intended use. For me it was more or less the equivalent of an 80mm Fox fork I had on a Gary Fisher SS (the Lauf has 60mm of travel). I now have the boost version of this fork, which coupled with a 3" tire, might give me enough cushion. Like everything for these races, testing in race-like conditions is key so I'm already looking any trails that more or less resemble the CTR course but are somewhat near the Denver/Boulder area.

I'm planning on 6-8 hrs of sleep. Comfort for me is a full length cushy sleeping pad (Thermarest NeoAir XLite). I don't care much about the rest, except for some solution for rain - I have some ideas from the 2017 thread that I'll be trying out. I definitely want to go lighter than I did at the TDR. Shooting for 50 lb max (bike+backpack if I carry one+water & food).

Yes on the shoes! For the TD I picked up Pearl Izumis Project X and I was very comfortable in them (only pair of shoes I took). They are due for a replacement now so I'll see what's similar to that.

BTW, nice summary chart of the 2017 edition

Thanks!

[Is FS a must, or a 29+ HT can work?]

Hey,

I need a LOT of preparation and training to do this, so I want to get an early start. Anyway, it's never too early to start talking about these things.

I have a couple of questions that are making me anxious already (well, a lot to be honest, but I'll start with a couple). For background, I started the TDR in 2016 and did 1,250 miles before quitting. I wanted to do this race again next year but for a number of reasons I just switched my sights to the CTR. My first questions:

Is FS a must, or a 29+ HT can work? I did first part of the TDR (Banff-Pinedale) on a Niner Air 9 with a Lauf fork. The bike did really well in the ST even though it was pretty heavy. I recently finished assembling my new bikepacking rig - a Stache Chinese knock-off frame with a Lauf fork and 29+ wheelset - thinking I was going to try the TDR again. Any thoughts on how this bike would do in the CTR? Have others used HTs? Anyone with a Lauf fork? My other option is a Niner RKT but the geometry and setup are very XC racing oriented and I wonder how several long & hard days would be in this bike.

Tent or bivy/tarp? In the TDR I used a light Zpack tent but being this later in the summer I wonder if I can just take a bivy or tarp.

Thanks!

PS: The new rig is work in progress. I fitted the bags and stuff I already have the best I could but I'm hoping to change a lot of things in the coming months.

SOLD. Thank you.

g

yeah, I'll take them if still available

Great. I'll PM you my info.