Maad is pretty much a professional writer!

@dave54
I just saw this on another forum. Right up your alley if you're riding near Bil Lake.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=642440

Yes, I've heard about this for the Nalgene bladder. You would think it's something they should be able to fix fairly easily and soon.

I reckon this is most of, and very similar to the Kaibab Monstercross which can be found in the "Routes" section of this website. DaveH is the master of this one. He's also got his map linked a couple posts above.

Anyone ever put the Nalgene bladder in a Talon?

good to know about the back panels. I was thinking about the biggest Raptor or the smallest Manta. I agree about the hip pockets on the Raptor. The S/M size is barely big enough to fit a gel packet, but at least on the M/L they are much bigger. There's no real closure system to them though, i.e. zipper or velcro - kind of lame. However the Raptor was not really designed for bikepacking, but rather pure mtn biking. In that respect I guess it's OK.

Very impressive first trip (and big too!); very challenging in many aspects, I'm sure. I imagine in bikepacking there is something very valuable to learn for each trip. You seem to achieve things with little effort. Great job!

FWIW (Not trying to argue) but I'm pretty sure it was less than 50 deg out there for the T&B, especially at the higher elevations. I was wearing the same exact clothing (unfortunately zero rain gear) as my post above and I was shivering uncontrollably until I made it back to the forest road by the camp. Luckily there was no wind at all. I just know I would've been in real trouble had I not been relatively close to my car with a heater and some dry clothes. I've been making it a point to check and test weather situations as I've been thinking about bikepacking, and these were the temps according to my car (which seems to be pretty accurate).

Anyways I was thinking about just getting a really thin, packable jacket, but now I'm wondering if I should look for a more insulated one that would also feature a more breathable material. I hate being cold, by the way.

Hey Rhino. If it's warm and have a chance to dry out later, I would just get wet. I've been drenched the past three weekends, and actually it's been kind of fun (back to my roots in the rain, humidity and mud) Last weekend there was constant drizzle, around 60 deg, and I was still warm enough from moving. You just don't want to be wet when it's about 40 deg. for hypothermia. Obviously you probably won't be sweating when it gets that cold anyway.

"Pistol Packing Rita"
Kentucky Camp for AES is Nov 20. (Just sayin. Same area and probably some of the same trails) I really enjoyed being out in this area and wouldn't mind doing a bigger tour. How much of your "loop" is trail?

Most of the bikepacking talk has been for the Manta and not the Raptor with respect to Osprey's Hydraulics line. Is this because of the backpanel frame or am I missing something else? The Raptor goes up to 18L and I like the organization of specific pockets (at least for general mtn biking). Also I tried the Talon 22 once, but was unimpressed with the bladder storage and just lack of compartmentalization. Also I did notice there are some subtle differences in design and features to each volume size of the Manta. Is there any one size that is advantageous for bikepacking?

I'm glad to see that there might be some hope for a non-race rides somewhere in the USA.

I'm trying to get something going in my area, (SW PA), but so far, not much as happened.  Here is a thread on the local Pittsburgh, PA mountain bike club forum:  http://www.porcmtbclub.org/phpBB3/mountain-biking-f1/topic3029.html

The visibility of 'bikepacking' is getting higher.  Dirt Rag (a Pittsburgh based mountain bike magazine) just did a big spread about bikepacking... maybe that will get some interest going here in the mid-Atlantic and elsewhere.

I would think you could get a little group together. There are some "crazies" out there in Pittsburgh (my favorite city). OH, PA, WV used to be my old stomping ground when I didn't even know bikepacking was possible. I think your limitations are lack of continuous trail (until you get down into WV) and of course weather. Good luck!

Where did you live in Ohio?

Columbiana. South of Youngstown, just West of PA border, and North of you. The world is an amazing place. I wish I could go back and revisit and ride all the places I never got to. My dad and I always talked about biking the Greenbrier River Trail; that would be a nice vacation (fall, colors, water, etc).

I grew up in OH, learned how to mtn bike (full rigid) at Snowshoe and have ridden all those trails mentioned. I'm in AZ now, but WV has to be one of the greatest places in the world for a mtn biker. Wild, Wonderful, Almost Heaven. Thanks for the memories!

Very cool. I've always thought the Cabin Loops would be a perfect place to get adjusted on that first Bikepacking trip. Great choice of beverage too, by the way. Coincidently I just bought the same exact to packs from the Whole Foods today (I can't believe I just spent that much on beer) Enjoy!

Hey Jim, I think this is a brilliant idea. I'm not much into the racing aspect, but I love the idea of the endurance events. My only reservations about bikepacking so far has been dropping a bunch of cash on all the overnight gear, people to go with, and just the unknown. I mean I have zero equipment, no sleeping bag, no water filter, no nothing. Also this would be a great learning experience as one could borrow ideas and techniques from other riders to fit your own style. Getting back to work on Monday is also a big deal. I would definitely make a hard effort to join you if something official was put together. Thanks for sharing!

I got some Lake MX 165s earlier this year.  They're pretty stiff, though not as stiff as the Specialized.  The vibram sole is pretty awesome for hiking.  (I'd read my review posted here for some comments on their fit, they are not for wide feet.)  Overall I'm quite pleased with them.

I actually just got a pair of the Lake MX 165's. I've always tried to go for the most hikeable bike shoe so I've never had a really stiff or light shoe to compare. But if you know you're going to hike-a-bike alot you have to compromise somewhere. I searched every shoe from every company and the Lake MX shoes combine the best of both applications. I searched the whole internet too to find a dealer and really the best bet is ordering them direct from the Lake website. I was worried about ordering online for sizing but you can return / exchange through Lake. The fit is true to size and by the way they do have 'Wide'. If you lucky in your size you can get a killer deal on the Lake MX 190's from JensonUSA.

That sounds like a philosophical question, not a technical one. What does "dedicated and stand-alone function" mean? It's perfectly feasible to have a device do lots of things well, I just don't know of a waterproof phone/gps device on the market. Though I'm still looking.

I just meant the GPS would have to work even if the cell was out of service range and still be able to reference your location to something like a topo map, etc. For instance, My buddy has a phone with GPS that loads right on top of Google Maps. That is the bomb, however, if he goes out of range then the GPS loses all function except maybe for giving you a coordinate location. Sorry I don't know much about all the functions of cell phones now, other than to make a phone call on one. I have a prepaid one that sits in my car for "emergencies". I know there's satellite phones out there, but if they could add regular cell phone use alongside GPS(atellites) -- now that would be awesome.

Thanks for your comments and input. I wouldn't expect airphotos to work very well as a custom map in a little GPS. The simple explanation is they contain way too much data for such an inadequate device (say compared to a PC). Aerial photography is great for pre-planning, but I don't think this would generally be the best way to decipher information off a GPS anyways. What I'm talking about is taking your pre-existing paper maps and transforming them so you can actually follow them on your GPS. Or like Dave said in finding some vector based data and creating you own custom map. This way you wouldn't have to be so dependent on somebody else's track or GPX file if it's a new area for you. For me, I think this is a huge breakthrough.

As for using cell phones for reliable GPS; I just don't see how that's feasible in a remote location. I mean you would have to have the GPS acquisition as a dedicated and stand-alone function. Can they do this yet? To me cell phones these days seem like more of a toy and a real GPS is more of a survival tool.

I also "donated" my 60CSx so now I'm looking for a replacement. I'm just not sure if the touchscreen models are there yet. In fact I would probably rather not have a touchscreen, but the thing that has me stoked is the ability to now load "paper" or rasterized maps. I don't consider myself a racer (yet) so I have never mounted my GPS handlebar style, although I would like that option as I'm getting more into the endurance mindset. So I'm considering these models: Vista HCx (cheap, about $200), Dakota 20 (~$350), or the Oregon 300 (because of the REI sale price of $250). The features that matter to me that would rule out the Vista is there is only a 20 track limit (which has been an issue in the past) compared to 200 on the touchscreens, and the ability to add custom maps. The Oregon 300 vs. Dakota 20 are very similar in features except for size, weight, battery life all of which the Oregon has/uses more of, but the Dakota has a tilt-compensated compass which could be nice. The only differences between the Oregon 300 & 550 (respectively) are:
 Waypoints/favorites/locations: 1000 / 2000 
 Routes: 50 / 200 
 Electronic compass: yes / yes (tilt-compensated, 3-axis) 
 Camera: no / yes (3.2 megapixel with autofocus; 4x digital zoom) 
I'm not sure if the difference in price would be worth it to me. I think the camera would be neat, but I would still carry my camera for flexibility and high quality shots.