And then copy your finished file over to google earth and fly your route

Thus allowing you to skip the ride part altogether .....

[$7.99]

Always funny reading Bikepacking how much gets boiled down into numbers and statistics, somehow. There's surely nothing wrong with that, so long as people are getting inspired to get out there, the numbers just help us all get out there!

Number-of-the-day: Since 2011 all I can think about at this time of morning is the smell of Biscuits, Bacon and Coffee at Jax Cafe in Eureka, Montana for $7.99! Heaven on Earth!!

Huge respect for you, Big River John, keep on going brother.

In one sense numbers and statistics are not just interesting but rather they are required.  We pretty much have to use numbers and statistics to communicate concepts and attach value in written or verbal communication. 

But I think take your meaning, one can get too wrapped up in the numbers. 

Personally I want to embrace the entire TDR experience.  Which includes considering 2 rather significant numbers, age and finish times.

Which makes me curious about yours?

I have also wondered how Tour Divide competitors have stacked up age wise.   In 2011 I arrived at Antelope Well after 21 days, 6 hours, and 40 minutes.   At the time I was 57 years old.   Afterwards I spent a lot of time analyzing my ride and the mistakes I made and what I would do differently.   I also noticed that most riders that do the tour again improve their times.   Route knowledge seems to be a huge factor.   With that in mind I started planning for a return in 2012, but unfortunately a couple of months after arriving back home I found myself in a rehabilitation facility without a clue how I got there.   I still remember the first thing they taught me to say " Hi, my name is John Richardson and I have a traumatic brain injury so I may seem confused."   I was told that on my commute home from work (a ride I've done hundreds of time without incident) I was struck from behind by a 1 ton cargo van going 55 mph.   I spent 3 weeks in ICU but have no memory of it.   Besides the traumatic brain injury I had along list of other injuries.   Certainly makes me thankful I was wearing a helmet.   After talking with the Highway Patrolman that investigated the accident and the guy that witnessed it and called it in, I realized how truly lucky I was.   The Patrolman told me that he had very little hope that I would survive.   He felt I was taking my last labored breaths, and the poor guy that saw it all was so shook up he had to get some counseling.
It's been a major challenge trying to get back to where I was.   I was restricted from doing any cycling or trail running for 6 months after I got out of rehab because I had some issues with balance and coordination, but I did get the okay to jog on the roads and ride my bike trainer.   In the last two years I've competed in many 5K and 10K races, and done 3 cross state bike tours plus 3 Marathons winning my age division in 2 of them.
I feel just as my Doctors do, that being in good physical condition was key to my survival and fast recovery, and I feel much of the credit for that belongs to the Tour Divide.   It's a great cycling challenge and one heck of an amazing adventure enjoyed and endured with the very best of fellow competitors.   Even with putting some lingering crash issues aside it's doubtful I'll compete in the Tour Divide again.   No one beats Farther Time.    But.... never say never.
I hope this post is readable and sorry if I rambled on a bit much, but remember I have a good excuse, I've had a traumatic brain injury so I might seem confused...

Cheers!  Big River John

Wow!!  You never know what life will deal but you seem to have made an excellent recovery--so could 2014 be in the cards for you?

(maybe we could have a 'old man' race, 54yrs in 2010--21:18:24)

ok--some more winter time thread action coming up............

Intimidating Split Times?

What the most intimidating TDR split times for you?  Mike Hall’s or others top place finishers? 

Nah, not for me as  their times are so far out of my league I barely give them a glance.

I used Jill’s for my 2010 run as I was shooting for around 25days and she had blow by blow/day by day entertaining written descriptions to match up with her split times. Worked out very well in the end…….

But for me the most intimidating split times are my own.  I pulled out my old 2010 GPS tracks and took a glance, sure that I could see all sorts of huge chunks of time to be saved.  I am like most—I remember all the things I did wrong and think I could go back and do better the 2nd time around. 

But the more I look at my actual splits the more daunting it gets.  To pick up a day or so overall--can I pull off 20 perfect days where I gain an hour here and an hour there?  Humm nice challenge but pretty low probability………..

So far looks like only three signed up for the NB GD

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnV6xT65HkPRdE5WZ2c4S0pyZnd5Tk51cko1ZzJneFE&usp=sharing#gid=0

So even with more to sign up as we get closer to start date--looks like if you race NB you will 'most likely' ride the entire route in true ITT fashion.   

Anyone know who has the best time for 55+ ?

I haven't kept up with the results for a few years.........

Rookie question: for those who live & train in the lowlands (I'm in Phoenix, below 2k ft), how are you training for the elevation?  Banff is around 5k ft above sea level, and then you climb climb climb.  To those who have gone before, how did the elevation impact your TD?  In light of your experience, how would you change your training?  Or would you change anything?

Day two has some relatively steep grades that can stress your fitness—but all in all the TDR gradients are mild.  Due to the mild grades I think altitude isn’t really an issue.  If you are fit all one needs to do is adjust / use an appropriate pace.  IE: listen to your body and ignore your speed.
Remember oxygen content is the same for everyone, so all your competitors must also pick the pace best for their inherent capability and current fitness level.

Personally I think the length or duration of the big climbs is a much greater factor than altitude per say. 
Due to the ‘length’ of the TDR and the sustained climbing, I feel optimizing your pace coupled with calorie/liquid intake is how one best maximizes their personal capabilities’-- vs some type of training routine that specifically attempts to account for altitude.

(not to say training for altitude is wrong, but just not that big of a factor in the end)

Yogi the Barry &  mtntraveler

Thanks for the feedback!

what do you guys think of this: http://www.klite.com.au/#!New-ORANGE-kits-now-SELLING/c1xn2/FC564444-092F-4F08-BF1D-B8CE2D766676

maybe overkill for the TDR but for touring or bikepacking in general...........

As Eszter & superdavebruno point out hotels can be time traps for many.  I know I have succumbed a few times to using hotel rooms for psychological ‘comfort’.  I can think of two specific nights where I checked in early to avoid sleeping out in rainy conditions and lost significant time.  Also I would agree staying in a room doesn’t really add much to the ‘sleep’ part of one’s recovery.  With the exception of one wet night I slept equally well on the ground as in a room. 

But usually I don’t sleep any ‘longer’ in a hotel room than on the trail.  And if sleep times are equal you don’t really ‘lose’ much if any time.  Admittedly to keep stop times relatively equal a extended ‘night ride’ may need to flip and happen at the start of the day.  Personally I enjoy riding in the dark at both ends of the day, whatever fits the circumstances……..

And I feel nothing beats a warm dry room for “non-sleep” recovery tasks…… Anyway, better recovery means a lot to me as I am a bit older and generally less fit/physically/efficient than just about anyone I am racing against. 

With good overall recovery I like to think I can gradually, day by day, gain time against the fitter racers who might be recovering less well……...

I also am considering the Exposure hub/light combo.  And with said hub I might as well get a USB charger. 

To tie them together I would like to use a simple, waterproof, 3-way switch:
1)   Light position
2)   Off position
3)   USB Charger position

Anyone out there know of such a ready-made switch?

One could fab up a small waterproof 3-position toggle switch to accomplish the task-- but I am hoping someone knows of a light or dynamo hub manufacturer who has a plug & play switch with appropriate connectors etc etc

When planning out the next day I like to pick a spot down the road that I hope to resupply & maybe get a hot meal- looking forward to reward will 'pull' me on rather than wait for something to open

Hotels and towns can become a time trap if you are 'waiting' for something to open.

Well, there is snow on the ground so its backpacking.net ‘forum’ time…. and a TDR 2014 post by Pablito got me thinking again about hotel use on the TDR.

Do hotels make you faster or slower?

For me strategic use of hotels not only made me faster but without them I probably would not have finished my TDR.  I think a hotel room is the absolute best way to improve you recovery.  And it has nothing to do with sleep.  If all you need is sleep then you are most likely losing time with a hotel room.

But here is how one might strategically/occasionally use a hotel room:

Check in with large quantity of drink and snack (all of your favorites- especially stuff too heavy to carry and that really appeals to you). Be sure to include your food for the following day so you can hit the road before anything opens.
As soon as you close the door start these “concurrent activities”:
•   get naked
•   snack and drink, keep snaking and drinking as stomach permits—you want to be fully re hydrated etc etc
•   order in a pizza or such if desired
•   wash riding gear and use towel trick to speed up dry cycle
•   wash body (might even soak tender spots in a hot bath)  
•   ice up injuries as needed
•   perform body maintenance as needed—trim, cut, kinsio tape, massage etc as needed
•   bike maintenance as needed
•   you aren’t done till all your gear is repacked and your breakfast food and clothing organized and laid out--all for a fast getaway in the morning.

Remember all above activities are done concurrently and should only use up about 1.5 hrs.    

Once the above is finished get horizontal on the bed and:
•   Continue to drink and snack as body allows.  By spreading your food consumption out over time you can comfortably pump enough liquid and calories into your body to be truly refueled!
•   Plan your next day and set your alarm.
•   Keep the TV off, check track leaders if you must, make short calls etc as needed-- but do not waste time on these activities as they keep you from doing what’s now most important and that’s sleeping.

How to gain not lose time from a hotel stop:
•   Give yourself no more than 5 hrs of sleep.  
•   If you checked in early this may mean you could conceivably be out the door and riding as early as 2:30am

So—no ‘travel’ time is really lost and your recovery is much better than it would have been otherwise.

Anyway the above has worked for me, I spent about ½ my TDR nights on the ground and the others in a bed—

Comments?  Disagreements?

pablito, I am curious -had you done any 3+ selfsupported races or technical practice rides prior to your TDR? Reason I ask is most of your list is exactly what comes out of ones first 2-3 self supported rides
Of course everyone list is slightly different but yours makes a excellent case study
There is a self supported 'skill set' that only reveals  itself to those who are willing to pay the price of doing it for real
I suspect you now have that skill set-- best of luck next time you line up in Banff

I was expecting to deal with NM dogs in 2010 and did. But my dog was only the size of a large cat, it tried it's bset to cause havoc but just wasn't 'up' to the task. Needless to say I was a bit let down after all the pre race discussion.

I would also be interested in a product that would let me get my aero bars a bit higher

All ears for a pm or other info source

I started ITT from AW in 2013 and plan to do the same in 2014, may mid-May.  Unfortunately, my rear hub failed at the northern end of New Mexico and I had to drop out.  I loved the solitude of the NM ITT start.  The only real problem (other than the hub) was too many flats near the start.  The cactus needles even near the side of the road were tough on the tires (four flats the first day).  I will probably start much earlier in the day to avoid the trucks coming up across the border and enable riding in the middle of the road.  That being said, if you start any time near when the border opens, expect big cattle trucks to pass you going well above the speed limit.  The trucks were very courteous giving plenty of space, but double long trucks doing 80 mph past you is just a tiny bit unsettling.

I thought the advantage of less heat at the start would be good plan, but my first day high of 107 showed even the first week of June can be very hot down there.  Plenty of water in cattle cisterns so water resupply is really not an issue if you don't mind sharing with the cows.

2013 was my first attempt, so not able to make comparisons.  One final note, NBers skip the single track near Breck, so you will need to modify your GPS file accordingly.  Easy enough to do with garmin software.

Having to stop from losing a hub, that hurts........
 
How soon would you need to start to avoid the border opening traffic?
Did you stop at Separ?

I like the way you can pull the DT Swiss 240 apart by hand to clean and lub, or replace a drive side spoke. Mine has held up thur the TDR, AZT 300 & 750 etc with just a couple of routine bearing replacements

I have been debating this myself. I like doing Grand Departs, group starts in general, feel more like a race, event. Yet after doing the TD in 2011 and missing huge sections due to snow I want to see the whole thing. Watching this years race and seeing the forest fires closures in NM makes me wonder? I also quite honestly want a go at the record.
So hard when one needs to commit to such an endeavor as soon as possible for training, saving money, getting time off work life etc, and winter hasn't even happened yet!!!
There is the fall timing, but not for me.
I am leaning towards the GD June 13th in Banff, but with so many of us it seems more circus like, for the first day or so anyways, I mean wasn't there like 140 last year? Too many for an unsanctioned race, if you ask me.
I do know that I am finding myself once again immersed in this Tour Divide Thing, TDT? so much to think about....
want it, need it, can almost taste it.....
Jefe

I also am hearing that seductive TDR call again.  And the sometimes overwhelming TDR immersion is trying to take a hold of me and drag me back…..  I dug out the old aerobars today, started playing with my piles of gear and bags, reloaded the track files and calculated the monthly weight loss I would need to attain.  As I drift off to sleep at night I have begun to pre-ride each race day in my mind (both NB and SB) it’s like counting sheep, I am usually asleep by around day 5…..……well, we will see if it goes anywhere for 2014…..

Personally a SB GD would give me many mid pack racers to “pull & push” me along.  And I would sort of like to better my 2010 time.  But as there are no age classifications & with the ever larger/faster field a shot at a top ten is simply beyond me.  This makes the pure race mentality I followed in 2010 a little less appealing.  I would love to see the GD start spread out over several days, with age classifications being one of the ways to split the field into smaller starting groups. But that isn’t going to happen so……… a NB depart appeals to me in so many ways beyond ‘best time’.  I would really like to see the entire ACA route but if you are going for time it’s tough to justify skipping those 2 long pave detours.  And a NB start would put the detours at the front of the race where one might be more inclined to give the main route a shot.  Plus it would be just plain fun to do the logistics backwards.  

Lots of personal motives to ponder over the next few months in addition to checking off all the usual to-do lists

MikeI, Including the ‘sort- of-dirt’  from when you  turn L off Hwy 81 there is 40 total miles of dirt/gravel till you hit the pave again at Hwy 90.  Minus a headwind this dirt section rolls quite fast in either direction, but it is more uphill overall going north.  But best of all, as soon as you head north from Separ and get away from the interstate you can begin to feel some desert remoteness!

But minus headwinds, I think a key to the AW-Silver City section is whether the Separ store is open for business.  If so cold water and snacks at mile 70 of 120.  If not --no big deal-- but one will need to lug a lot of water right from the start, especially if it’s hot.

Anyone know if the Separ store is open nowadays?

Well, it's northbound from AW for me, mainly because it's a couple hours drive from the "dirty T" over to AW, so no bike to be reassembled out of a box in the Calgary airport, etc..   And I also tought going north would get me through NM before the fires start and then maybe the snow is mostly melted up north.   But I would like to hear what others think about prevailing winds, and north vs south for some of the harder climbs !  

On paper one would think a NB rider would stand a better chance of missing the fires that seem to plague NM. Less snow up north is also assured with the NB depart, but while unlikely, it’s still possible you could arrive to impassable snow.
Personally I think chances will be better, but only ‘slightly’ better, for a NB racer to get in a full no-detour run.  (I think if picking the best odds for a no-detour run were  a racer’s ‘main’ consideration, a fall start, would provide the highest probability of said no-detour run)

Anyway, MikeI, what time you planning to start from AW?  Extra early to beat the heat?  

How far do you plan to get the 1st day?

And are you planning on following the main ACA route in NM, or the pavement options that have become the de facto TDR race route?

Best of luck on your run…………