Best route from Mexico to Canada, CDT/GDMBR mix?

[alpenzorro]

hi bikepackers.

if you had plenty of time and wanted to get from mexico to canada, which route would you choose?

after a bit of reading, it looks to me as if a combination of CDT and GDMBR could turn out pretty nice: use the CDT where it exists in a more or less rideable state. skip the most pointless parts (which for me are long stretches of flat/downhill bushwhacking) by means of GDMBR or other dirt/paved roads.

or maybe start with the AZT, connect to TU, have some funny sidetrips around Moab and the continue somewhat differently, maybe joining the CDT further up north?

or maybe something totally different?

i've never cycled in the US, so please forgive me if this is all a huge pile of rubbish and totally impossible. just collecting ideas for my next trip and after reading all those riding reports, your place certainly looks tempting... :-)

stefan.

[ScottM]

Let's see.  If I had one trip, Mexico to Canada, I'd start with some version of the AZT, cross the canyon somehow, then head onto TU towards Moab, eventually hooking back up to the CT / CDT in Colorado, then make my way north along the GDMBR / CDT.

This assumes you have a good experience base with bikepacking, and it sounds like you do. 

While the New Mexico is a good / interesting state along the GDMBR, the CDT (in my experience) is either one of A) non-existent or B) very hard/slow/hike-a-bike.

Some sections of CDT in Colorado are not to be missed (the GDMBR route is sub-part through Colorado, IMO, you miss a lot). 

GDMBR in Montana is good too -- some interesting stuff there for sure.

[alpenzorro]

Hmmm... the AZT didnt really sound very "bikeable" in your trip report either , but I guess that depends a lot on the "version". I like the idea of crossing the canyon though.

Connecting to the CT/CDT from Moab could be done rather nicely I suppose? Just found something about a "hut system" and one-week assisted bike rides. Sounds almost "european style".

Weird question: How is cellphone coverage on the AZT and CDT?

Not so weird question: Is it possible at all to skip the worst heat in the south but still not run into snow troubles up north? What would be a good starting time for such a trip?

[ScottM]

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend a full on AZT trip.  Remember that the trail also improves every year, especially with respect to new trail being built.  The new stuff is almost always very good for bikes.

Yep, there's the hut system route (dirt roads, with a couple singletrack options) to get you into Colorado.  It shouldn't be too hard to get over towards Durango to hook up with the CT.  There are a lot of interesting roads out that way.  I'll bet someone on this site can help with that connection.

Re: cell coverage.  I don't have too much experience here, but a little.  It's better on the AZT than CDT.  I know of a few spots on the AZT where I was really surprised that people had cell coverage.  In both cases, however, it's not nearly widespread enough to rely on.

Re: start date.  A late April start at Mexico would be good for AZ.  It would be warm going through the Moab area, but then you'd have a good odds at snowpack in higher elevation Colorado.  Depends how fast you move, days off, of course.  CDT through hikers often start in April.  You'd move faster on a bike, but going into Moab buys you some time before hitting Colorado.

I think it's doable.  The other variable, of course, is snowpack.  No way to tell now how that's going to shape up.

[alpenzorro]

ok, thanks for the info so far. i'll try to make up my mind now. usa&canada? china&tibet? south america? or europe again? difficult... :-)

btw, since you seem to be a map freak (me too), what are the best raster topomaps for utah, colorado, arizona and montana? the usgs stuff strikes me as a bit useless (free but old and ugly). i know all products for europe by heart, but the US is still sort of "undiscovered country" for me.

i mainly travel without paper (weight and comfort reasons) but instead stuff everything into my gps-pda.

[ScottM]

ok, thanks for the info so far. i'll try to make up my mind now. usa&canada? china&tibet? south america? or europe again? difficult... :-)

All good options! 

btw, since you seem to be a map freak (me too), what are the best raster topomaps for utah, colorado, arizona and montana? the usgs stuff strikes me as a bit useless (free but old and ugly). i know all products for europe by heart, but the US is still sort of "undiscovered country" for me.

Guilty as charged.  The USGS stuff is pretty much all there is.  Of course there are various incarnations of it.  The only free downloadable source is Terraserver (what TopoFusion uses) and they are old and ugly in some cases.  If you want newer USGS stuff that is scanned at higher resolution, look at Maptech's products or Topo!. 

i mainly travel without paper (weight and comfort reasons) but instead stuff everything into my gps-pda.

Yep, same here.  I usually end up with a couple maps, but 90% of it is on the GPS.  I still don't know much about what kind of software is available for map viewing and live GPS tracking on PDA's.  One of these days I'm sure I'll be diving in.

[alpenzorro]

The USGS stuff is pretty much all there is.

That's pretty sad. Tried a few areas around Moab and it looked horrible. Ah well, cant be helped. On the other hand, Topofusion's map display engine is a speedy miracle, compared to all other software on this planet. Unfortunately, it doesnt work in Europe. Life sucks...

I still don't know much about what kind of software is available for map viewing and live GPS tracking on PDA's.

Well, I use PathAway on my trips. The UI is a bit weird even in current V5 and you can see it's been around for a long time and was written when nobody thought of having 16GB worth of gis data in the pocket. But it gets the job done and has all the features I need for my live trip reports (gpx in/export, kml support, live tracking, etc) and for planning the route along the way.

Then there is the newcomer, CompeGPS Pocket LAND. Direct support of (huge) ecw maps, an incredibly impressive display engine that can merge multiple maps with different projections on the same screen (even in 3d). Still lacks a lot in other areas, but looks promising.

[ScottM]

That's pretty sad. Tried a few areas around Moab and it looked horrible. Ah well, cant be helped. On the other hand, Topofusion's map display engine is a speedy miracle, compared to all other software on this planet. Unfortunately, it doesnt work in Europe. Life sucks...

It does work in Europe, it's just that the only mapserver we have is Landsat -- and that imagery is pretty low resolution.  Still we do have some European users!

I just added generic WMS server support to TopoFusion.  I've found some very nice color aerial servers in the US, but haven't looked in Europe yet.  Do you know of any servers?  Where do you get your maps?

Then there is the newcomer, CompeGPS Pocket LAND. Direct support of (huge) ecw maps, an incredibly impressive display engine that can merge multiple maps with different projections on the same screen (even in 3d). Still lacks a lot in other areas, but looks promising.

I have heard good things about CompeGPS in general.  Need to check them out.

[kbabin]

AZ,

If you like buy printed maps, try "lat 40" maps to help with the routing from Moab to Durango.  Also check out http://sanjuanhuts.com/ if you have not seen that site.

http://latitude40maps.com/

Check out.

Moab East
Colorado Southwest Trails

Kevin

[alpenzorro]

@kbabin, the lat40 maps are sufficiently pretty indeed. now, if only they were available at least statewide and digitally .

@scottm, i wrote you an email regarding maps and europe. it's a complex topic.

i have one more question about national parks. trails are off limits obviously, but is it allowed to ride on dirt roads? like, for example, the trans-utah track touches bryce canyon NP at the southern border and googleertah shows a "mill creek" dirt road entering the park and connecting to a hiking trail. would i be allowed to cycle into the np on this dirt road and then leave the bike at it's end and hike around a little? or will that get me handcuffed, forced into a helicopter and kicked out of the country?
 

[ScottM]

alpenzorro - thanks for the detailed email.  I replied yesterday -- did you not get it?

As for national parks -- often dirt roads are OK.  Not always, but if it's on the TU I would assume it's open to bikes.

No problem leaving the bike and hiking around either.

[velomatt]

Let's see.  If I had one trip, Mexico to Canada, I'd start with some version of the AZT, cross the canyon somehow, then head onto TU towards Moab, eventually hooking back up to the CT / CDT in Colorado, then make my way north along the GDMBR / CDT.

This assumes you have a good experience base with bikepacking, and it sounds like you do. 

While the New Mexico is a good / interesting state along the GDMBR, the CDT (in my experience) is either one of A) non-existent or B) very hard/slow/hike-a-bike.

Some sections of CDT in Colorado are not to be missed (the GDMBR route is sub-part through Colorado, IMO, you miss a lot). 

GDMBR in Montana is good too -- some interesting stuff there for sure.

Hey Scott,

Any deviations off the main route of the CDT/GDMBR once you left Colorado or would you truck on to Banff?

[ScottM]

Yep, the CDT Mike and I rode west/north of Jackson, MT was prime stuff.

See: http://www.topofusion.com/diary/2008/09/07/cdt-chapter-2-jackson-loop/

My guess is there are other parts of CDT that are worth riding.  We did some other exploration, and it was good stuff, but slow and perhaps not worth the effort on a longer trip.

[velomatt]

Scott,

Great write up, thanks for sharing!

You mentioned some possible loss of riding area.
Do you know if the new Land Bill will convert some of that riding area to wilderness if it passes?

[ScottM]

Thanks.

I believe the first part of the trip (Lima) is under immediate threat of wilderness, but I think the other stuff is not yet slated.

[velomatt]

I have a pretty good plan for Spring/Summer 2010 in the works.
I'm telling everyone that I am going "on a mountainbike trip next summer". Very few know that I am quitting work for 5-6 months.
What started as a just the CDT/GDMBR out-and-back, has blossomed into quite a trip.
I want you to know that your comments about the GDMBR and the CDT on this thread have influenced me greatly, thanks for the inspiration!

At this point I plan on starting here in Oklahoma mid/late-April and heading to Palo Duro Canon (TX) for a few days of riding then on to Albuquerque. I'll then pick up the GET to AZT to Moab to Fruita/CB down to Durango and then pick up the CDT/GDMBR then north to Banff and then west, maybe north to AK, ferry to Juenau, not sure at that point??? Thats all I have so far.
I have a solid year to work out my route but I do want to try and have a basic itinerary with no set in stone dates or plans. Just go and come back before Winter.

Ill be searching for tips and ideas so feel free to shoot them my way.

Matty-B

[ScottM]

I want you to know that your comments about the GDMBR and the CDT on this thread have influenced me greatly, thanks for the inspiration!

Cool.

At this point I plan on starting here in Oklahoma mid/late-April and heading to Palo Duro Canon (TX) for a few days of riding then on to Albuquerque. I'll then pick up the GET to AZT to Moab to Fruita/CB down to Durango and then pick up the CDT/GDMBR then north to Banff and then west, maybe north to AK, ferry to Juenau, not sure at that point??? Thats all I have so far.
I have a solid year to work out my route but I do want to try and have a basic itinerary with no set in stone dates or plans. Just go and come back before Winter.

Wow, and ambitious plan for sure.  You'll be a bikepacking god if you complete all that.

Only comment I have right now is that the western portions of the GET and southern/middle portions of the AZT will be quite hot by the time you'd get there.  April is more recommended, and you may find 100+ temps near the junction of GET/AZT.  Some portions of the GET getting there could be in the 100's by then too.

Good luck with the planning.  Keep us posted on the route as it evolves!

[velomatt]

Scott,

Assuming I do leave Albuquerque in early April...
What about snow as I get into Flagstaff?
On that note,
Will I have too much snow to deal with when I get onto the CDT/GDMBR in Colorado?
What would be the earliest time of the year to try getting onto the CDT/GDMBR?

[ScottM]

Snow in Flag is unlikely to be a problem.  If you cross the Grand Canyon, however, the North Rim will probably have snow.  There's always the (closed to traffic at that time) paved road, though.

I think it'll take you some time to make it through GET, AZT and then to get into Colorado.  Mid June maybe?  That may or may not be too early based on the snowpack, which is dwindling quickly these days.

[hiker41]

Hey!
My hiking group spoke with you in the Grand Canyon.  What an amazing sight it was - carrying a bike on your back while hiking clear across the Canyon!  I hope that you are well and that your knee healed.  Take care!