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  Topic Name: Bike Packing and Thru Hiking Combo on: December 10, 2018, 12:28:02 PM
ultraspitz


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« on: December 10, 2018, 12:28:02 PM »

I have a couple routes that I have created and with some of the best sections entering the Wilderness and biking is prohibited- I was wondering if anyone here has strapped their bike to their pack and hiked? 

Also- if so, what is the most hiking miles with your bike on you that you would go?

Thanks!
Ryan
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  Topic Name: Bike Packing and Thru Hiking Combo Reply #1 on: December 10, 2018, 01:01:14 PM
THE LONG RANGER

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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2018, 01:01:14 PM »

Strapping your bike and hiking through Wilderness ("Wilderness", as defined in the USA) isn't something allowed under the Wilderness Act.

Possession of the bike itself, even if it's stashed on your back, in Wilderness still isn't allowed. Even if you do not intend to ride it.

Thems the breaks.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 01:54:28 PM by THE LONG RANGER » Logged


  Topic Name: Bike Packing and Thru Hiking Combo Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
Crystaline


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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 04:17:41 PM »

hey Long Ranger,

I made an account just to ask where you are getting that information. I am not trying to be accusative, but sincerely curios. Have you talked with any of the specific ranger districts in colorado? Are you going off the 1984 Forest Service regulation that prohibited “possessing or using a hang glider or bicycle” in a Wilderness area (CFR 36 Sec. 261.16 (b))? Since one can argue that once partially disassembled, you no longer have a bicycle, but bicycle parts, that you would be permitted.

It is an attempt to follow the intent and spirit of the law while ALSO following the letter of the law.

I have been contemplating doing something similar myself on the CT. Taking apart my bike, walking through the lost creek wilderness with the bike on my back, then riding the other side, staying out of wilderness areas.
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  Topic Name: Bike Packing and Thru Hiking Combo Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 04:37:40 PM
THE LONG RANGER

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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 04:37:40 PM »

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=0035ffffd6287a3a2120bd5f2db5fc3d&mc=true&node=se36.2.261_118&rgn=div8


§261.18   National Forest Wilderness.
The following are prohibited in a National Forest Wilderness:
(a) Possessing or using a motor vehicle, motorboat or motorized equipment except as authorized by Federal Law or regulation.
(b) Possessing or using a hang glider or bicycle.

And,

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=0035ffffd6287a3a2120bd5f2db5fc3d&mc=true&node=se36.1.4_130&rgn=div8

    §4.30   Bicycles.
    (a) Park roads. The use of a bicycle is permitted on park roads and in parking areas that are otherwise open for motor vehicle use by the general public.

    (h) Prohibited acts. The following are prohibited: (1) Bicycle riding off of park roads and parking areas, except on administrative roads and trails that have been authorized for bicycle use.
    (2) Possessing a bicycle in a wilderness area established by Federal statute.


It's not use that's the problem, it's possession. You can partially disassemble a bike, but you still possess a bike. You're still going to have two wheels, no matter how you break down a bike - and guess what? Carts aren't allowed in Wilderness either (ask a hunter). Consider that the Wildnerness Act also disallows hang gliders - no one can bring a fully assembled hangglider into an area - you disassemble it, right? Same idea.

Yes, I've asked the various people who managed specific Wilderness Lands. It's a no-go. If you want to double-check the peeps that manage Lost Creek Wilderness, be my guest. They're not going to be into it. The hikers you pass are going to get (rightfully) angry at you.

People get really confused, since in/on the Arizona Trail (Race), you can disassemble your bike, and portage it across. BUT the Grand Canyon in that area IS NOT WILDERNESS, and it's the specific rule of the land managers to allow a dissembled bike across (so long the wheels don't touch the ground).
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  Topic Name: Bike Packing and Thru Hiking Combo Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 08:42:05 PM
chrisx


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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 08:42:05 PM »

The fed will answer the same question different from one day to the next.  I went into the Marblemount ranger station, got a permit to hike in North Cascade park, and was told stashing my bike in the woods was ok, by the ranger who issued the permit.  On the way out, I got a warning ticket for hiding my bicycle in the woods.  Want to get technical, the state owns, controls at least 100 feet on either side of highway 20.  I did not park in the Park.

Florida CBP confisgated my tomatoes and let me keep my avacodos, California CBP confisgated my avacados and let me keep my tomatoes, within 3 days of each other.

Ranger in Stehiken says I can carry my bicycle 10 miles through the wildernes, if and only if, I remove the wheels. 

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  Topic Name: Bike Packing and Thru Hiking Combo Reply #5 on: March 06, 2019, 09:34:09 AM
RunRig


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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2019, 09:34:09 AM »

There is an argument to be made that a bicycle is a vehicle with two wheels...remove the wheels, and it's not a bicycle anymore. Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. That said, 30 or so years ago, I was volunteering as a docent at a state park, with a patch of wilderness in the middle of it. A guy shows up with a plan to do a one night out and back which would cross into the wilderness area. The ranger said don't worry about it, just don't go off the road (I think it was a road that skirted the edge of the wilderness).
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  Topic Name: Bike Packing and Thru Hiking Combo Reply #6 on: March 06, 2019, 02:17:00 PM
Crystaline


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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2019, 02:17:00 PM »

I was talking this over with my wife last night, playing devil's advocate and the like and where we got to was; if I just take off the front wheel and pedal, then it's still a bike, still a no-go. But if I can't put it back together using the parts on my back, then it's fine. At this point my wife said "well why would you even want to do that then?" Well I ride a 29+ and my buddy rides a 26fat. we swap front wheels when we disassemble. Then neither of us can physically build a bike with the parts on our back. Wife gets angry and says I'm being pedantic.

It sounds like it really comes down to the opinion of the ranger who sees you, if you even meet one.

And I would doubt any hiker would have issue with you hiking with the bike on your back. At that point you are a hiker too, just with a ridiculous pack.

I guess I don't really have anything to add other than contacting the ranger district before hand until someone says "go for it" then write their name down so when you run into ranger 'bob' you can say ranger 'joe' with your district said I could.
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  Topic Name: Bike Packing and Thru Hiking Combo Reply #7 on: March 08, 2019, 09:10:38 AM
THE LONG RANGER

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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2019, 09:10:38 AM »

And I would doubt any hiker would have issue with you hiking with the bike on your back. At that point you are a hiker too, just with a ridiculous pack.

The Wilderness Act disallows possession of a bike as I've tried to point out, so carrying it isn't some sneaky loophole. I would think the same for partially disassembling it, as the spirit of the Wilderness Act is what's important. It's a Pandora's box to open, and once opened, we're not just talking about bicycles, are we? Could I partially disassemble a car and bring it through Wilderness? Everyone cool with that?

Being a good steward of bicycle travel does mean following the rules set forth by the land managers of the area. If it's Wilderness, it's a no-go for bikes - that's all you gotta know.

If one would like access by bikes to be broadened (which I would be supportive of, on a case-per-case basis, and especially when utilized to traverse across areas where no other safe access can be found), it's most likely best to do this through diplomacy + community action, rather than breaking the rules and being a bad trail user, because of the feeling of privilege that I can do a thing, because no one with real power (other trail users) is going to stop me, and if they don't like it: tough cookies for them. Who would fine me, anyways: the increasingly understaffed and underpaid land managers? That's a riot.

To me, it's no different than a rule that says some trails can't be ridden by bikes in a local trail system because they're hiker only, or that trails close because of  conditions would be that if you rode them, you would damage them. For the greater good, and to Do The Right Thing, I abide by these rules.  It's not my right to disregard them.

Which is, as a community, what we've been doing in the grand sense of things, right? Take the Colorado Trail, Arizona Trail - even the GDMBR - they all reroute around Wilderness.

As the West gets ever more populated, this will become a more prickly topic. You can start to feel my own thorniness come up. One of the goals of Wilderness is to provide a hunk of land where humans have a smaller footprint of impact. It's not like we're making a whole lot more Wilderness out there, but we sure are making a whole lot of us.

Do bicycles always fit into the idea of a place of conservation?


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  Topic Name: Bike Packing and Thru Hiking Combo Reply #8 on: March 27, 2019, 02:58:00 AM
sumit02saini


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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2019, 02:58:00 AM »

I wasn't even certain what it intended to have level pedals until two or three days sooner. While cruising serenely down an undulating nation street (rustic" had been utilized to depict it so often, it turned into a joke), another rider had inquired as to whether I had ever ridden "clipless." What are you discussing? My pedals don't have cuts. I explicitly wore my Five Ten methodology shoes since I realized the brand made cycling shoes, thinking perhaps I won't look as strange. It clearly didn't work. So as I folded into the campground consistently, shrieking and sliding and gasping, "level pedals win awards" was a typical welcome and signal of consolation.
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